No logbook entry for Paint Job

[AmigOne]

I have just discovered that there is no logbook entry for the excellent paint job on my aircraft.   How critical is this?  

[kerry]

Did you have it painted or was it done prior to your ownership?

[TTaylor]

Very critical.  There should be a log book entry with materials and methods used both to remove the old paint and apply the new paints.  There should also be a sign off for total weight changes and that all moments for controls were checked and within standards when the aircraft was returned to flight.  The most critical are the W&B and control moments.

[WardHolbrook]

Any legitimate paint shop (or aircraft painter) would understand the need (and requirement) to properly document a paint job. Without the appropriate logbook enteries, one would have to question every aspect of the paint job. As I see it, unless you can get those entries, the airplane is unairworthy. 

[AmigOne]

No,  it was not painted during my ownership otherwise I would know who did it and I agree with the all of the above comments.  I am at a loss to explain how this was missed but it is water under the bridge.  So what do I do now? I trash the airplane?  Anybody can tell the good quality of the job and the airplane has been flying for many years now w/o possible flutter issues due to unbalanced surfaces.  I have tried to track down previous owners  (I bought it from  the widow of one of them) and all numbers are no longer in service.  Any suggestions?

[WardHolbrook]

By any chance is there a decal on the fuselage giving the name of the paint shop? If so, problem solved. Contact them (assuming they're still in business) and have them send you a logbook insert.  

[AmigOne]

I thought about the decal and I am going tomorrow to the airport to check but unfortunately I don't remember seeing any.  And if there is none?,  there must be another solution.  At least for now I am kind of reluctant to check with the local FISDO and can't find anything useful on the internet yet.    Where can I find the paint scheme by year?  maybe it is original although I don't think so.

[AmigOne]

Before somebody suggests I can always have the airplane stripped and painted again     

[WardHolbrook]

Without the appropriate logbook entries there's probably no easy "legal" solution. The airplane has obviously been annualed once or twice since it was last painted so your best bet, under the circumstances, is to simply let sleeping dogs lie. But understand, if an IA ever brings it up, you may to have to do something drastic (strip and repaint) to get the paperwork up to snuff. I do have one additional thought - frequently, log book entries such as this are made on sticky back paper that are meant to be inserted into the logs after the fact. I'd go through any and all the paperwork that you received with the airplane looking for the log book entries. Perhaps the previous owned just slid it in with all of the other paperwork or even stuck it into one of the earlier log books. Stranger things have happened. All of this serves to underscore the importance of a thorough pre-purchase inspection. Good luck. 

Edited May 30, 2014 by WardHolbrook

[kerry]

I take it you've had an IA sign off your annual.  Ask him to do a new W&B, inspect it and log it in your books as airworthy.  Another option is if anybody from the FAA asks for your log books tell them that you lost them or they burned in a house fire.

[WardHolbrook]

I take it you've had an IA sign off your annual.  Ask him to do a new W&B, inspect it and log it in your books as airworthy.  Another option is if anybody from the FAA asks for your log books tell them that you lost them or they burned in a house fire.

No, you wouldn't need to go to that extreme. I just called one of my buddies who is an AI and bounced this off of him. His response was to try and find the log book entries, but if that failed, he would want to visually inspect the airframe to verify the quality and workmanship and he would also want to see a log book entry showing that the flight controls were balanced. Assuming that it's not a scab job and the flight controls were checked and found to be in balance, he would have no problem signing it off. But again, life would be so much easier with a proper pre-purchase inspection.

[OR75]

how do you know it was painted ?!?!

[AmigOne]

The paint scheme was not available in 1968.

[orionflt]

Paint it self is not an airworthiness item, get an updated weight and balance and have the flight controls balanced for good

Brian

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[chrisk]

I'm not sure a record is required.  It's been painted for more than a year?  http://www.ruleaviation.com/aircraft_records.htm  Of course, I haven't read this section 25 times to get every nuance. 

[laytonl]

logbooks do get lost.  As long as the last annual is recorded and all of the appropriate 337's are accounted for, I think you would be fine.  Lee

[47U]

Do you have a copy of the aircraft FAA CD from OK City? It will have a copy of all the previous 337s accomplished on the airplane. It's a long shot, but there may have been one filed with the FAA, especially if there was a weight and balance change.

Barring that, the ownership history from the CD will give you a geographic record of where the airplane was, even if the owners themselves are no longer with us. Look at the sectional chart for prospective close airports, then call the manager(s) and ask who the longtime airport bums are. Another long shot, but someone might remember the airplane and know where the previous owner got the airplane painted.

A lot detective work, but stripping and painting is expensive... even reweighing the airplane and removing control services for balance is something I wouldn't want to do. A day on the telephone just might pay off with some leads.

I advise against keeping secrets from your A&P/IA. Mutual trust is required in that relationship.

[AmigOne]

I was able to locate the owner who had the airplane painted.  He was sure there was a log entry, obviously there was none.  But I did get the paint shop and the approximate year (2000).  Unfortunately the shop, Mod Works, a MSC in Florida who did excellent work once upon a time, is long gone. But I found two blank pages in the logbook during the year 2000 just after some maintenance work by the Mod Works so what WH suggested above might have happened, that is a sticky record was printed but was never inserted in the log.  So I am going to search in the mountain of records I have, maybe it is "stuck" somewhere else.

BTW since 2000 the airplane has gone through 13 annuals and 3 pre-buy inspections.  Is there a message here?

[Steve65E-NC]

 Mod Works of Punta Gorta, Fl disappeared in a hurricane, a puff of smoke and a skirt tail.   However, I think elements and maybe even a sucessor business of Mod Squad, Venice, Fl may still be in existance.  I have a feeling they were and are just professional enough to have properly logged a paint job and that the records of work done by Mod Squad are still in existance.  I think Coy Jacobs was involved with Mod Squad around that time and you might want to start with him.  

[Aerodon]

Stuff gets 'found' on planes all the time.  I've seen logbook entries along the lines of 'automotive style engine heater found installed on firewall and removed'.  XYZ GPS found installed.  Installation inspected and found to conform with...., W&B updated.  Not ideal, but with 50 year old planes you have to accept that standards and 'acceptable practices' have changed a lot over the years.  

 

In your situation, I would do the following:

 

1) Keep looking for the logbook entry / previous records / painter etc.

2) At the next annual (or sooner if its worrying you), get your IA to inspect and sign off all the usual items he would do after a paint job.  I don't think W&B generally gets redone after a paint job if its a strip and paint (anyone care to comment on this and the results of re-weighing?).  Control surface rebalancing - I would say that is a 'must' after a paint job, but check the maintenance manual, it might have specific instructions for each control surface?  It's not a huge job to rebalance, and take the opportunity to thoroughly inspect balance weights, for corrosion, turnbuckles, rod ends, install new bolts etc.

3) Inspect for any other hidden damage.  Unfortunately I can see an unscrupulous owner / IA wanting to hide an incident, gear up, hail damage, worse?  Fix the damage, paint the plane, sell it...But if the owner who had it painted kept the plane for several years after the paint, its unlikely?

 

Don

[cliffy]

Only 2 items are needed to bring you into compliance if the records can not be found

The control surfaces have to be checked for proper balance conditions per the maintenance manual. No options here. This must be logged after any paint job. If it was an "over paint" and not a strip and paint on the control surfaces, that can indeed throw them out of balance.

Secondly, a simple reweigh of the airplane should be done and logged. If it was an over paint it will weigh more than it did and way more than the 1 pound allowed for modifications that don't require a logging of the weight changes.

Best of course is to find the old records.

Good Luck

[aerohawk]

If the weight and balance records are up to date and the last annual is signed off then the aircraft is airworthy. When a annual is signed off it means the aircraft and records were inspected and found to be airworthy, plain and simple. 

[1964-M20E]

Under FAR 43, Appendix A, Paragraph C, item (9) - Preventive Maintenance includes the following:

 

"Refinishing decorative coating of fuselage, balloon baskets, wing tail group surfaces (excluding balanced control surfaces), fairings, cowlings, landing gear, cabin, or cockpit interior when removal or disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is not required."

 

So apparently, painting a decorative coating is "acceptable preventive procedure" that may be performed without IA-AP oversight (excluding any balanced control surfaces) and returned to service by a signature of a person holding at least a private pilot certificate.

 

As far as a logbook entry requirements go for preventive maintenance read FAR §43.7(f):

 

A person holding at least a private pilot certificate may approve an aircraft for return to service after performing preventive maintenance under the provisions of §43.3(g)

 

So, IF you feel bad about a missing logbook entry for preventive maintenance, you could have the control surfaces checked for proper balance and W/B verified by an I-A, have them note it in you logs and go about your way.

 

Phil

Ditto

 

You can paint the entire airplane yourself you only need A&P to "rebalance the control surfaces"  Next annual discuss this with your IA and move on do not sweat it.

[AmigOne]

Steve,  I just called Coy Jacobs, unfortunately he did not get any of the Mod Works records most of which went out of through the roof during the hurricane.  He also mentioned that, i) Mooney control surface hardly ever go out of balance and ii) most shops can remove the surfaces and check them for balance, about a full day job.

 

Thanks to you and others for the useful comments and suggestions, I was never too worried but I feel better now.  

[John Pleisse]

Late add..... if this were and interior.....you would have a real problem. IA's don't sign off on interiors that don't have records or may not conform. You be looking at flame test, etc.