Junk

[Matt Michael]

I just returned from a 16 hour roundtrip drive to look at yet another wonderfully described piece of crap for sale.  In the last couple months I've seen about 6 different planes and the 4 that were actively on the market were not even close to what they were being sold as.  My motto now is "if it's for sale I'm not interested".  You've got to have a sense of humor if you're going to waste 2 days driving 16 hours.  My I.A. buddy mocking the FBO secretary says, "the Mooney? Oh yes, just follow the river of avgas over there on the ramp.  You cant miss it"  Yes, fuel leaks are the norm but the latest really surprised me. It was sold as, "yes, it does have a small fuel leak on the top side of one tank but as long as you burn that tank down first and park without refueling it's not an issue"  Viewing the plane in person after an 8 hour drive reveled the worst fuel staining I've yet seen under a Mooney.  I swear there was a 2 inch wide blue and brown coating 1/16th inch thick along the bottom of the spar the entire length of both fuel tanks. This is a plane being offered as turn key!  After my mechanic buddy discovered and corrected an outstanding AD that the last annual had missed and the demo pilot showed up (3 hours late) the plane was fueled and pushed out of the giant beautifully lit heated shop.  When we opened the cockpit to climb in I was almost thrown off the wing by the force of the fuel vapors roiling out.  My mechanic said it looked like I was hit in the forehead by a baseball bat.  We walked past he seller and his demo pilot shaking our heads. They seemed like really nice people but either they were trying to pull one over on us or they are just stupid.  Or maybe I'm just stupid to expect that somewhere out there is a decent Mooney, in my price range, that has really been taken care of and is ready for a new home.

 

It's supposedly a buyers market but I think that perhaps the market, and the general economy, has been so down for so long that people have been deferring maintenance.  I'm here to tell you, it's a Buyer Beware Market.

 

Matt Michael,

Ames Iowa

[Marauder]

What price range and what type of Mooney are you looking for? I bought my Mooney knowing about a leak and had the price lowered to reflect the bladders I had installed. Got any pictures if this junk? Curious to see what they look like.

[Cruiser]

Fuel leaks are not uncommon in Mooneys but that doesn't make them junk. 

 

Other than a sense of frustration, you do not offer us much to comment on. Then again maybe you just wanted to vent and were not looking for feedback?

There are a few MooneySpace members with planes for sale here. Have you looked at them?

 

If you are looking for a "like new" condition perhaps you can wait till January, the factory opens then, there will be new Mooneys soon.

[Mooneymite]

I feel your pain.

 

Countless hours and dollars have been wasted travelling to see mis-represented aircraft.

 

However, after about the fourth trip, I began to understand the questions that need to be answered and the documentation that must be provided BEFORE buying that airline ticket!

 

Good luck.  Education aint cheap.

[Rwsavory]

You say fuel leaks are the norm?  No way.  Not on a well-maintained airplane. 

 

You apparently knew the tank leaked before you made the trip to look at it.  If you don't want to see "junk," don't go looking for it, unless you're willing to pay for the repair.  And when you hear "yes, it does have a small fuel leak on the top side of one tank but as long as you burn that tank down first and park without refueling it's not an issue"  hang up the phone.  There are a lot of good planes for sale, but you're unlikely to get a "steal" on one that is well-maintained.

[Matt Michael]

My venting is meant in a light hearted and humorous vein. It's been absolutely fascinating to learn about this great design and I enjoy meeting pilots. But it is surprising sometimes what apparently reasonable people will grow accustomed to and consider acceptable, safe, or airworthy. And, it's not just fuel leaks. One decent looking E model on TAP turned out to have a warped aileron. When asked, the seller said that his buddy had recently reskinned the bottom to repair some hangar resh. The whole thing was completely warped out of true more than an inch and lovingly repainted and pinstriped! It looked like it was manufactured that way! The engine missed badly, almost died on final, some gauges that are supposed to work didn't. I never heard anything about a Mooney crash landing so I guess he made it home. ;-)

[Matt Michael]

And I AM willing to repair "a minor leak" but that ship was a sieve! Worst one I've seen. And with an outstanding AD too!

[Rwsavory]

I guess we all have a certain tolerance for imperfection, especially in the older planes.  I'm not a fan of dripping gas either.  Happy shopping!

[Mooneymite]

You're doing the right thing by being picky about details.  The "right plane" is out there, but you have to find it.  Kind of like looking for a wife; the time for fault-finding is BEFORE the wedding!   

[jrwilson]

Matt, your original post came across as light hearted and humorous, as you intended. I think based on some of the replies it is "grumpy Thursday" here on Mooneyspace.

[chrisk]

I would not write off a plane because of a fuel leak.  I would however discount the price, depending on when the tanks were last stripped and re-sealed.   And I would not bother looking at a plane that has been out of annual for 2+ years.

[Bob]

Sounds like you are going thru the normal process!

As they say, "When you give up, a good one will present itself".

I gave up after looking at quite a few J's, then ended up with a nice low time K.

 

My first step, after talking to a seller, would be to request high resolution digital picture.  An zoom in a lot while viewing.  I have purchased so many items remotely, in the last 10 years, and always ask for high res pics.  I would also listen to the buyer talk and have him guide you with your specific requests.  In the case of the fuel leak, ask for several shots of the underside of the wing.

 

I bet if you do this, you will cross a lot off your list.

[wiguy]

 I agree with the above, just look at the planes that have been brought back from the brink.  I realize many won't be the type that want to deal with the hassle. The main key is, to factor it ALL into the price. At a low enough point it may be worth it, then again, maybe not. The seller may not want to sell, then leave it for the next guy.

 

  Once one area is fixed correctly, it is usually good for a long time.

[OR75]

The internet and pictures are great tools for searching the market and setting expectations for a given price point.(search ASO.com)

 

American Aircraft always has a good inventory with a wide range of price/quality

[Dave Marten]

Matt,

As you're finding out if a deal sounds too good to be true it is! While there are a lot of airplanes on the market unfortunately not all have been well cared for and there is probably a good reason why its priced way low.The pilots on this forum are extremely knowledgable about their Mooneys. If something catches your eye it is a completely valid technique to start a thread asking for opinions. You'll get plenty!

Take advantage of the resources on this forum.

Venting is also valid, but let's turn it into something constructive. One of folks here may have even owned a specific airplane you may be interested in or knew the pilot who did.

[Mooneymite]

One of the things I always look for is hangar-history. If you can find one that has been hangared its whole life, it is usually a better airplane for two reasons: it's been out of the weather, and secondly, it shows owner pride/care.

I also always consider the owner. The airplane will be a reflection of his personna.

[scottfromiowa]

There is an M20E on Ebay for $42k. Tanks have been resealed, Nice leather interior, upgraded panel...

Why you would drive 16 hours when told there is a fuel leak and then whine...yes whine when the tank is filled and leaks....Well DUH...Yes, vintage Mooney's OFTEN have tank seeps. To the author of the post that sad "well maintained Mooney's don't have "leaky tanks"...Whatever. It is $3500 to properly re-seal a tank. A plane can be safely flown with a seep. Yes, if the seep is a run you need to get it repaired, but if the tank leaked only when full...I have a seep in the left tank until it is sealed in June. I have a VERY WELL MAINTAINED/UPGRADED vintage Mooney and take exception to the comment.

No whining. I wish I had the buyers market you do now. Good grief. You reap what you sew. I wish I had this resource when I was looking...I for sure would not have driven 16 hours...sob, sob.

Oh, never mind. Ames Iowa...Iowa State fans DO have a whining card. Carry on.

[scottfromiowa]

AND it is in Minneapolis...

[scottfromiowa]

Humor? Really? Sorry, I missed the smiley face in the first post and only saw "whiney"...

Grumpy in Cedar Rapids...and jealous of the present buying conditions and education that were NOT there in 2000 marketplace.

Come to C.R. I have some cheese to go with your wine.

[scottfromiowa]

oops...forgot.

[kmyfm20s]

Cabin fever starting to set in?.....

[scottfromiowa]

No, just grumpy

[aviatoreb]

I just returned from a 16 hour roundtrip drive ...

 

I just returned from a top east coast MSC.  In that shop there was a M20C, an M20J, an M20K (mine), an M20TN, an M20R, and several Aerostars, a Columbia, and a Cessna 172 (??? who let that airplane in the club?  well....it looked good anyway).  All the airplanes looked great.  I mean great.  I was not surprised to see the acclaim just sparkled, but so did the C and the J (actually - my airplane had the least good paint job in there - but I am proud it is mechanically perfect - and this might be just the thing to put a bit more work into the paint next summer).

 

The C looked GREAT.  It had newer pain, leather interior with Mooney stiched into the headrests - and well - it just looked mechanically like a cream puff.  I mean I am not an AP and it was just a visual inspection - but the evidence is, from where I saw it in the nice shop, that someone is loving that airplane.

 

What am I saying and why am I saying it here....maybe the trick is the maintenance logs.  I like to think that you can just tell from the logs if a person is going the extra mile to take care of an airplane in a manner as if it was their special cream puff pride.  Visiting an MSC regularly, preventive maintenance, and so forth.  Those airplanes are out there - I saw a shop full of them today in each price category - its a buyers market so buy one of them if you can.

[Hank]

Yes, Erik, the good Mooneys are out there. But mine isn't for sale! :-)

[KSMooniac]

With all the modern tools available, there should be very little need to travel unless you've confirmed you're looking at a good airplane.  Sellers today should be willing to offer lots of hi-res photos, and photos or scans of the logbooks, or at least the last several years worth in any case.  If they're not willing to do that, then you can immediately cross that plane off the list.  Pics of the wheel wells and bottom of the wing (and belly) will go a long way towards telling you what kind of shape it is in, and ditto for the firewall-forward.  That should be the first screening test, followed by a log review to see if it has been flying regularly and maintained regularly.  If you can see 3 entries for annual inspections on one page and 35 hours of total time between them, then you know it hasn't been getting exercise.  Or worse, 3 entries for annuals on a single page and 500 hours of time...with no other maintenance!