No back spring in landing gear actuators

[M20S Driver]

Please see the image from the maint manual below:

 

 

sbm20-282-a.pdf

[thinwing]

ive got one on a thumbdrive for my M...and the only absolute limitation is for the turbo v clamps allowing only two removals than they are tossed k

[Deb]

This is what was referred to by Premier. We posted to share our experience. We also pointed out that Premier was an FAA Repair Station and perhaps that factored into their interpretation/position.

 

I reiterate that Mooney has since changed this in their Service Manual, and it's no longer in Chapter 4. The part has been changed, and we have a new part. It was expensive, and arguably unnecessary. At the time, we had no choice.

 

As a side note, the airplane also has Amsafe airbags. The module which controls its deployment (in the belly of the airplane) apparently is also a time limited part, and our module had reached that time limit. When we elected to defer the replacement of the module Premier, disconnected it (but did leave it installed in the airplane), put a placard "Amsafe Disabled" and a notation in the annual entry in the aircraft logbook.

 

We are only relating our experience, nothing more. We are not being judgmental. Again, Premier elected to become an FAA Repair Station. Perhaps the set of rules under which they now fall gives them no leeway. This certainly exceeds any knowledge I have. Perhaps one needs to consider the possible ramifications if a conveniently located MSC becomes an FAA Repair Station, when considering an annual or other service.

Chapt 4 Mooney Service Manual.pdf

[carusoam]

What is the time/age limit of the AmSafe airbags?

I have some old cars, I'm starting to wonder about...

I'll probably leave them connected though while I find out....

Best regards,

-a-

[M20S Driver]

This is what was referred to by Premier. We posted to share our experience. We also pointed out that Premier was an FAA Repair Station and perhaps that factored into their interpretation/position.

 

I reiterate that Mooney has since changed this in their Service Manual, and it's no longer in Chapter 4. The part has been changed, and we have a new part. It was expensive, and arguably unnecessary. At the time, we had no choice.

 

As a side note, the airplane also has Amsafe airbags. The module which controls its deployment (in the belly of the airplane) apparently is also a time limited part, and our module had reached that time limit. When we elected to defer the replacement of the module Premier, disconnected it (but did leave it installed in the airplane), put a placard "Amsafe Disabled" and a notation in the annual entry in the aircraft logbook.

 

We are only relating our experience, nothing more. We are not being judgmental. Again, Premier elected to become an FAA Repair Station. Perhaps the set of rules under which they now fall gives them no leeway. This certainly exceeds any knowledge I have. Perhaps one needs to consider the possible ramifications if a conveniently located MSC becomes an FAA Repair Station, when considering an annual or other service.

 

I purchased my plane through Premier and they did an annual and top overhaul prior to the delivery.  I enjoyed my transaction with them and I found them to be good and honest people.  The maint shop quality was reasonable (not perfect)!  I will buy from them again if they are selling what I am looking for.

 

I also have an issue with the specification that is hour based.  I bought the plane used and not sure if someone did hundreds of T&G with the gear going up and down or the time is built up in multiple long cross county flights, so the safest thing is to put a new one on and not worry about it.

 

I called Top Gun again today regarding no-back spring.  They recommend to replace it at 1000 hours until Mooney officially changes the requirement.  I will be happy to spend the $1100 and not worry about a belly landing with my family onboard.

[Hank]

What is the time/age limit of the AmSafe airbags?

I have some old cars, I'm starting to wonder about...

I'll probably leave them connected though while I find out....

Best regards,

-a-

The recommendation used to be to have the airbags checked 10 years from manufacture. Just like the Cirrus chute, rocket and (unfortunately) straps buried inside the skin.

I would imagine that AmSafe's timeline is similar, but you'll need to confirm.

[carusoam]

Those are in my long term A/F improvement plan...

Best regards,

-a-

[thinwing]

airbags timed out at 10 years huh...so they disable a potentially life saving device that may or maynot work due age.Well now you know Deb it definitely wont work!!...I am really having trouble understanding their thinking...are they concerned about an unwanted deployment?..Does amsafe recomend this action?I know if this was my bird..I would have the belly panels off and control module reconnected and the placard removed until I got another opinion..and of course Premier gave you no option and made a log book entry.This is the kinda thing Mike Busch at savvy aviator deals with...I was nuetral in this discussion until I heard about the airbags!!Sorry for your treatment Deb...

[Guest]

AmSafe has an exchange program for the control modular, so you should not be grounded or unserviceable. They are not really expensive and are shipped very quickly.

Clarence

[M20S Driver]

I heard Mooney may increase the recommended 1000 hour replacement on no back spring clutch in the landing gear motor assemblies to 2000 hours but add an inspection at 1000 hours. Does anyone have any info on this?

 

Do the new Acclaim or Ovation need the no-back-spring done after a 1000 hours?

 

I posted this a long time ago.  I am wondering if there is a news on this?

 

Driver 

[rgpilot]

When I purchased my used Ovation from Premier, they replaced the no back spring without charge to me as it was a SB.

[M20S Driver]

When I purchased my used Ovation from Premier, they replaced the no back spring without charge to me as it was a SB.

 

How may hours did you have on the no-back spring?  I bought mine from Premier with 884 hours and still had the original no back spring.  

I have now over 1000 hours and while it is not mandatory, I will replace it for a piece of mind.

[rgpilot]

I had just over 1000 hours at the time it was replaced by Premier.

[Tony Armour]

How may hours did you have on the no-back spring?  I bought mine from Premier with 884 hours and still had the original no back spring.  

I have now over 1000 hours and while it is not mandatory, I will replace it for a piece of mind.

Save me your old spring ! :-)

[Deb]

Save me your old spring ! :-)

Premier refused to give us the old spring. They said it had to be destroyed.

[jetdriven]

Premier refused to give us the old spring. They said it had to be destroyed.

It's not required to even be replaced and it's not required to destroy it. If so, let's see where it says that.

[N601RX]

There may be some truth to what they said IF the work was done under their repair station license.  I worked at a FAA repair station for several years and our overhaul procedures for several of our gear actuators said the removed parts had to be destroyed period.  We had a press set up to crush them.  Because it was in our procedures it had to be done. It all depends on what their written procedures say and IF the work was signed off as a repair station or by an A&P.

[jetdriven]

Yes the old repair station scam. Every component must leave here in new condition and no IRAN. The local prop shop refused to repaint and balance my prop. Claimed since it was past 6 years it "must be overhauled or it's not airworthy". How much then. 7 grand they grind the blades "hopefully they'll pass". For a 9 year old 1250 hour McCauley prop.

My friend went with them for his bellanca prop and 3 months 100 hours later all 3 blades are leaking. They tore it down for warranty and they told him the blades must be re-profiled but they are at limits. 13k a new prop he was flying again.

[Deb]

Just do business with someone else next time, then.

+1

[fantom]

Premier refused to give us the old spring. They said it had to be destroyed. More likely 

 

More likely....either reused or still in your plane. 

[Deb]

More likely....either reused or still in your plane.

Well, we won't have to worry about infant mortality!

[M20S Driver]

Mooney did not change its recommendation so I now have a tested no-back-spring in my tool box

I replaced my spring at 1140 hours and had to replace the clutch as well.  I used a high mag microscope to check the two ends of the spring and see of there was any signs of cracking and none was found.  it was interesting see that one side was near perfect but the second end was showing signs of deterioration of the edges of the spring as well as a few deep scratches.

I will keep my eyes and ears open for the infant mortality case but it still think I made the right decision to replace it.  

[Cruiser]

Mooney Service Manual MAN170 issued November 1998 "This handbook includes the maintenance information required to be available by FAR PART23"

Chapter 5 TIME LIMITS/MAINTENANCE CHECKS

5-10-01 OVERHAUL, MAINTENANCE AND REPLACEMENT SCHEDULE

RECOMMENDED OVERHAUL, MAINTENANCE OR REPLACE TIME LIMITS

Landing Gear - Actuator No-Back Spring .... 1000 Hours

the next item on the list is Powerplant

Engine ....... 2000 Hours.

and 

Propeller ..... 2000 Hours

[jetdriven]

2 hours ago, Cruiser said:

Mooney Service Manual MAN170 issued November 1998 "This handbook includes the maintenance information required to be available by FAR PART23"

Chapter 5 TIME LIMITS/MAINTENANCE CHECKS

5-10-01 OVERHAUL, MAINTENANCE AND REPLACEMENT SCHEDULE

RECOMMENDED OVERHAUL, MAINTENANCE OR REPLACE TIME LIMITS

Landing Gear - Actuator No-Back Spring .... 1000 Hours

the next item on the list is Powerplant

Engine ....... 2000 Hours.

and 

Propeller ..... 2000 Hours

So, is this contained in the airworthiness limitations section or not?  Cirrus has one, and the Items therein are not optional.  But it's a FAR 23 aircraft.  

There seems to be a debate on whether SB's are now mandatory.  I have no idea why  

 

Edited March 14, 2016 by jetdriven

[M20S Driver]

36 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

So, is this contained in the airworthiness limitations section or not?  Cirrus has one, and the Items therein are not optional.  But it's a FAR 23 aircraft.  

There seems to be a debate on whether SB's are now mandatory.  I have no idea why  

 

My understanding is that the no back spring and SBs are not mandatory and my mechanic agrees.  I usually comply since most are not too difficult to comply with.  I will not overhaul the engine or prop at TBO and that decision will be based on the condition of the units, not the hours.