M20S Driver Posted February 5, 2015 Author Report Posted February 5, 2015 Please see the image from the maint manual below: sbm20-282-a.pdf Quote
thinwing Posted February 5, 2015 Report Posted February 5, 2015 ive got one on a thumbdrive for my M...and the only absolute limitation is for the turbo v clamps allowing only two removals than they are tossed k Quote
Deb Posted February 6, 2015 Report Posted February 6, 2015 This is what was referred to by Premier. We posted to share our experience. We also pointed out that Premier was an FAA Repair Station and perhaps that factored into their interpretation/position. I reiterate that Mooney has since changed this in their Service Manual, and it's no longer in Chapter 4. The part has been changed, and we have a new part. It was expensive, and arguably unnecessary. At the time, we had no choice. As a side note, the airplane also has Amsafe airbags. The module which controls its deployment (in the belly of the airplane) apparently is also a time limited part, and our module had reached that time limit. When we elected to defer the replacement of the module Premier, disconnected it (but did leave it installed in the airplane), put a placard "Amsafe Disabled" and a notation in the annual entry in the aircraft logbook. We are only relating our experience, nothing more. We are not being judgmental. Again, Premier elected to become an FAA Repair Station. Perhaps the set of rules under which they now fall gives them no leeway. This certainly exceeds any knowledge I have. Perhaps one needs to consider the possible ramifications if a conveniently located MSC becomes an FAA Repair Station, when considering an annual or other service. Chapt 4 Mooney Service Manual.pdf Quote
carusoam Posted February 6, 2015 Report Posted February 6, 2015 What is the time/age limit of the AmSafe airbags? I have some old cars, I'm starting to wonder about... I'll probably leave them connected though while I find out.... Best regards, -a- Quote
M20S Driver Posted February 6, 2015 Author Report Posted February 6, 2015 This is what was referred to by Premier. We posted to share our experience. We also pointed out that Premier was an FAA Repair Station and perhaps that factored into their interpretation/position. I reiterate that Mooney has since changed this in their Service Manual, and it's no longer in Chapter 4. The part has been changed, and we have a new part. It was expensive, and arguably unnecessary. At the time, we had no choice. As a side note, the airplane also has Amsafe airbags. The module which controls its deployment (in the belly of the airplane) apparently is also a time limited part, and our module had reached that time limit. When we elected to defer the replacement of the module Premier, disconnected it (but did leave it installed in the airplane), put a placard "Amsafe Disabled" and a notation in the annual entry in the aircraft logbook. We are only relating our experience, nothing more. We are not being judgmental. Again, Premier elected to become an FAA Repair Station. Perhaps the set of rules under which they now fall gives them no leeway. This certainly exceeds any knowledge I have. Perhaps one needs to consider the possible ramifications if a conveniently located MSC becomes an FAA Repair Station, when considering an annual or other service. I purchased my plane through Premier and they did an annual and top overhaul prior to the delivery. I enjoyed my transaction with them and I found them to be good and honest people. The maint shop quality was reasonable (not perfect)! I will buy from them again if they are selling what I am looking for. I also have an issue with the specification that is hour based. I bought the plane used and not sure if someone did hundreds of T&G with the gear going up and down or the time is built up in multiple long cross county flights, so the safest thing is to put a new one on and not worry about it. I called Top Gun again today regarding no-back spring. They recommend to replace it at 1000 hours until Mooney officially changes the requirement. I will be happy to spend the $1100 and not worry about a belly landing with my family onboard. Quote
Hank Posted February 6, 2015 Report Posted February 6, 2015 What is the time/age limit of the AmSafe airbags? I have some old cars, I'm starting to wonder about... I'll probably leave them connected though while I find out.... Best regards, -a- The recommendation used to be to have the airbags checked 10 years from manufacture. Just like the Cirrus chute, rocket and (unfortunately) straps buried inside the skin. I would imagine that AmSafe's timeline is similar, but you'll need to confirm. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted February 6, 2015 Report Posted February 6, 2015 Those are in my long term A/F improvement plan... Best regards, -a- Quote
thinwing Posted February 7, 2015 Report Posted February 7, 2015 airbags timed out at 10 years huh...so they disable a potentially life saving device that may or maynot work due age.Well now you know Deb it definitely wont work!!...I am really having trouble understanding their thinking...are they concerned about an unwanted deployment?..Does amsafe recomend this action?I know if this was my bird..I would have the belly panels off and control module reconnected and the placard removed until I got another opinion..and of course Premier gave you no option and made a log book entry.This is the kinda thing Mike Busch at savvy aviator deals with...I was nuetral in this discussion until I heard about the airbags!!Sorry for your treatment Deb... Quote
Guest Posted February 8, 2015 Report Posted February 8, 2015 AmSafe has an exchange program for the control modular, so you should not be grounded or unserviceable. They are not really expensive and are shipped very quickly. Clarence Quote
M20S Driver Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Posted July 23, 2015 I heard Mooney may increase the recommended 1000 hour replacement on no back spring clutch in the landing gear motor assemblies to 2000 hours but add an inspection at 1000 hours. Does anyone have any info on this? Do the new Acclaim or Ovation need the no-back-spring done after a 1000 hours? I posted this a long time ago. I am wondering if there is a news on this? Driver Quote
rgpilot Posted July 23, 2015 Report Posted July 23, 2015 When I purchased my used Ovation from Premier, they replaced the no back spring without charge to me as it was a SB. Quote
M20S Driver Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Posted July 23, 2015 When I purchased my used Ovation from Premier, they replaced the no back spring without charge to me as it was a SB. How may hours did you have on the no-back spring? I bought mine from Premier with 884 hours and still had the original no back spring. I have now over 1000 hours and while it is not mandatory, I will replace it for a piece of mind. Quote
rgpilot Posted July 23, 2015 Report Posted July 23, 2015 I had just over 1000 hours at the time it was replaced by Premier. Quote
Tony Armour Posted July 31, 2015 Report Posted July 31, 2015 How may hours did you have on the no-back spring? I bought mine from Premier with 884 hours and still had the original no back spring. I have now over 1000 hours and while it is not mandatory, I will replace it for a piece of mind. Save me your old spring ! :-) 1 Quote
Deb Posted July 31, 2015 Report Posted July 31, 2015 Save me your old spring ! :-) Premier refused to give us the old spring. They said it had to be destroyed. Quote
jetdriven Posted July 31, 2015 Report Posted July 31, 2015 Premier refused to give us the old spring. They said it had to be destroyed. It's not required to even be replaced and it's not required to destroy it. If so, let's see where it says that. 2 Quote
N601RX Posted July 31, 2015 Report Posted July 31, 2015 There may be some truth to what they said IF the work was done under their repair station license. I worked at a FAA repair station for several years and our overhaul procedures for several of our gear actuators said the removed parts had to be destroyed period. We had a press set up to crush them. Because it was in our procedures it had to be done. It all depends on what their written procedures say and IF the work was signed off as a repair station or by an A&P. Quote
jetdriven Posted July 31, 2015 Report Posted July 31, 2015 Yes the old repair station scam. Every component must leave here in new condition and no IRAN. The local prop shop refused to repaint and balance my prop. Claimed since it was past 6 years it "must be overhauled or it's not airworthy". How much then. 7 grand they grind the blades "hopefully they'll pass". For a 9 year old 1250 hour McCauley prop. My friend went with them for his bellanca prop and 3 months 100 hours later all 3 blades are leaking. They tore it down for warranty and they told him the blades must be re-profiled but they are at limits. 13k a new prop he was flying again. Quote
Deb Posted August 1, 2015 Report Posted August 1, 2015 Just do business with someone else next time, then. +1 Quote
fantom Posted August 1, 2015 Report Posted August 1, 2015 Premier refused to give us the old spring. They said it had to be destroyed. More likely More likely....either reused or still in your plane. 2 Quote
Deb Posted August 1, 2015 Report Posted August 1, 2015 More likely....either reused or still in your plane. Well, we won't have to worry about infant mortality! 2 Quote
M20S Driver Posted March 13, 2016 Author Report Posted March 13, 2016 Mooney did not change its recommendation so I now have a tested no-back-spring in my tool box I replaced my spring at 1140 hours and had to replace the clutch as well. I used a high mag microscope to check the two ends of the spring and see of there was any signs of cracking and none was found. it was interesting see that one side was near perfect but the second end was showing signs of deterioration of the edges of the spring as well as a few deep scratches. I will keep my eyes and ears open for the infant mortality case but it still think I made the right decision to replace it. Quote
Cruiser Posted March 13, 2016 Report Posted March 13, 2016 Mooney Service Manual MAN170 issued November 1998 "This handbook includes the maintenance information required to be available by FAR PART23" Chapter 5 TIME LIMITS/MAINTENANCE CHECKS 5-10-01 OVERHAUL, MAINTENANCE AND REPLACEMENT SCHEDULE RECOMMENDED OVERHAUL, MAINTENANCE OR REPLACE TIME LIMITS Landing Gear - Actuator No-Back Spring .... 1000 Hours the next item on the list is Powerplant Engine ....... 2000 Hours. and Propeller ..... 2000 Hours 1 Quote
jetdriven Posted March 14, 2016 Report Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Cruiser said: Mooney Service Manual MAN170 issued November 1998 "This handbook includes the maintenance information required to be available by FAR PART23" Chapter 5 TIME LIMITS/MAINTENANCE CHECKS 5-10-01 OVERHAUL, MAINTENANCE AND REPLACEMENT SCHEDULE RECOMMENDED OVERHAUL, MAINTENANCE OR REPLACE TIME LIMITS Landing Gear - Actuator No-Back Spring .... 1000 Hours the next item on the list is Powerplant Engine ....... 2000 Hours. and Propeller ..... 2000 Hours So, is this contained in the airworthiness limitations section or not? Cirrus has one, and the Items therein are not optional. But it's a FAR 23 aircraft. There seems to be a debate on whether SB's are now mandatory. I have no idea why Edited March 14, 2016 by jetdriven Quote
M20S Driver Posted March 14, 2016 Author Report Posted March 14, 2016 36 minutes ago, jetdriven said: So, is this contained in the airworthiness limitations section or not? Cirrus has one, and the Items therein are not optional. But it's a FAR 23 aircraft. There seems to be a debate on whether SB's are now mandatory. I have no idea why My understanding is that the no back spring and SBs are not mandatory and my mechanic agrees. I usually comply since most are not too difficult to comply with. I will not overhaul the engine or prop at TBO and that decision will be based on the condition of the units, not the hours. 1 Quote
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