Gear warning system

[larryb]

My Mooney is my first retractable airplane. My greatest worry when buying it was a gear up landing. So far, so good, but still the phrase "There are those that have, and those that will." haunts me. And we read enough about them, even with experienced and capable pilots, to know that they can and do happen. So what are the communities thoughts on a gear warning system, something more sophisticated than the throttle-based system that came with the plane?

[orionflt]

the throttle based system actually works well, but I have also added the gear warning function on my MVP-50 so I have that wisper in my ear saying gear, not just the horn.

[TTaylor]

Where is the "I have a factory one  but I want a better after market one"  option?

[Jeff_S]

If you develop obsessive compulsive disorder and check the gear five times for every landing, the little warning sound is always in your head. That's my method!

[Marauder]

My Mooney is my first retractable airplane. My greatest worry when buying it was a gear up landing. So far, so good, but still the phrase "There are those that have, and those that will." haunts me. And we read enough about them, even with experienced and capable pilots, to know that they can and do happen. So what are the communities thoughts on a gear warning system, something more sophisticated than the throttle-based system that came with the plane?

 

There are great in cockpit YouTube videos of people landing airplanes gear up with the gear horn blasting or a voice calling out "gear, gear". If I remember correctly Piper even had an automatic gear extension capability on some of the Arrow models to prevent gear ups.

 

I think most people who forget are distracted at some point. I find that the best way to avoid it is to get into a habit of doing multiple checks. On a normal pattern entry, I do a BUMPS check on downwind, base and final. IFR it is done at the FAF and 500 feet above MAP.

[Marauder]

If you develop obsessive compulsive disorder and check the gear five times for every landing, the little warning sound is always in your head. That's my method!

 

Exactly! Now I need to wash my hands 10 times because I touched my keyboard!

[Mooneymite]

I'm always amazed at how expensive the various add-on warning systems are for production airplanes.

 

The original M-18 Mooneymite had an ingenious (and inexpensive) gear warning device:

 

When the throttle was closed enough to allow one to land, the throttle linkage opened (un-pinched) a vacuum line to an old-fashioned vacuum windshild wiper motor mounted behind the instrument panel.  On the shaft was a flag that wagged back and forth in front of the pilot's face.  Not fool proof as the record of Mooneymite gear-up landings will attest, but it must have been more effective than a red light and a horn of present day.

 

On the few Mooneymites that came with factory electrical systems, the wig-wag flag was replaced by the "newer" lights/horn combination.  I wonder if anyone kept records to see which was more effective?

[201er]

I heard the other gear warning is the eternal flare. If that doesn't cue you in, nothing will.

[Mooneymite]

I heard the other gear warning is the eternal flare. If that doesn't cue you in, nothing will.

 

In Navy flight training, it was the Marine instructor in the back seat hitting you in the helmet with his knee board screaming at your stupidity.

 

Very effective.  I'm sure they can electronically reproduce that same tone of scorn for a "modern version".

[larryb]

Yes, I do multiple checks, etc. I think the problem with the existing warnings is they come too late, like in the flare. How about a system that warned really early, say 1000' agl? That kind of notice would give you plenty of time to realize that you aren't configured right, and time to fix it.

 

Larry

[201er]

Yes, I do multiple checks, etc. I think the problem with the existing warnings is they come too late, like in the flare. How about a system that warned really early, say 1000' agl? That kind of notice would give you plenty of time to realize that you aren't configured right, and time to fix it.

That would be annoying, and quite likely ignored cause I don't have my gear down that early.

 

One hard rule I have is NEVER to put in flaps before gear or reduce power to the point I can hear the horn. I gotta leave those options for later. So I try to fly my pattern fast and with some power in. Using my SOP, I was never once reminded by gear warning or checklist cause it was already down. I like to keep it that way and check just in case anyhow.

[HopePilot]

I've tried to get Wing X to put in a reminder option, at a pre-determined altitude (at destination), but I've had no luck convincing them.  Maybe, a couple of you would like to send them an email?

[1964-M20E]

If you develop obsessive compulsive disorder and check the gear five times for every landing, the little warning sound is always in your head. That's my method!

I keep hearing voices. I keep heard these voices.   Make’ m stop, make’ m stop, oh just put the gar down will you.

 

 My plane is equipped with the factory audible alarm as well as a nice sweet voice to remind me.  Thankfully I rarely hear either of them unless I’m trying or testing them..

 

Gear up is my biggest fear as well.  I have tried to train myself on downwind, cross wind and final as well as FAF, short final and several other times but invariably I still get to the ground and sometimes I wonder when I put the gear down really scary!!

 

One time landing at FT Stewart I had the tower call “confirm gear down and locked” after verifying the gear was already down I responded “gear down and locked thank you sir”.  It would be nice if at towered airports the tower would make that radio call on final it just might save a few.

[N601RX]

A few of the fields around me are handled by military controllers and it is standard procedure for them to remind you on base or final. 

 

I have been thinking about putting together something for a few months, but have not had the time.  It would be battery operated, only turn on when the wheels were up and use a ultrasonic distance measurement module. It would connect back to the audio panel or headset over bluetooth. Since it would only be turned on when the wheels were up, the battery should last from one annual to the next.

 

http://www.maxbotix.com/

[Skywarrior]

In Navy flight training, it was the Marine instructor in the back seat hitting you in the helmet with his knee board screaming at your stupidity.

 

Very effective.  I'm sure they can electronically reproduce that same tone of scorn for a "modern version".

 

Ah!!! Pleasant memories of VT-27...

[TWinter]

Took just one close call for me to remember, and I assure you I check ten times over even after GUMPS..

 

Quick "Bonehead" story. My avionics shop called me one morning and said they had an opening if I wanted to bring the plane right over ASAP. I was getting ready for work when they called at 7:30 AM. It kind of threw a monkey wrench into my morning schedule, but I hurried to the hanger, pre-flight etc..all is good. I'm making the  routine 15 minute flight over and thinking about my agenda for the day. I needed them to get done and me back to work. 

 

While flying over I'm thinking about everything I needed to do that day. What I was not doing was planning my landing correctly. It's a very short runway at the avionics shop, I start in on a straight in final. I "Thought" I did GUMPS. Flaps are down and I'm on final just above the runway flaring and continue flaring..coming in slightly fast and continue to pull power out. The stall horn is going off, I'm thinking no big deal..just pulling power from flare to slow down the stall horn does that every now and then..I finally decide at the last minute I'm too fast for the short runway and decide to go around. Full power, flaps up and......gear up, guess what, gear was never down. The stall horn was because of the gear being up and MP. What an idiot!

 

After composing myself, letting my pucker factor relax and realizing how stupid I had just been. I thank God every single day. Could have been a bad deal. Now I assure you I check the gear at least ten times on my landings. I replay that close call nearly every landing.  The worst and best lesson ever learned. Never hurry and keep your head in the game.

 

Back to topic..I think the best design would have been different warning sounds. Using the stall horn sound as "gear not down" and stall warning was a bad design..In my case I thought stall warning was just because of the nose high landing. I repeat GUMPS many times during my landings. Live and learn and check gear on downwind, base, final x 2 and twice before I touchdown.

[201er]

Thanks for the story. It brings up a quick question in relation to that. Does the nose pitch attitude look higher, lower, or the same when done gear up vs gear down?

[TWinter]

Thanks for the story. It brings up a quick question in relation to that. Does the nose pitch attitude look higher, lower, or the same when done gear up vs gear down?

It was almost a soiling moment and pretty instantaneous...As I remember my pitch was higher because I was too fast and trying to bleed speed by keeping slightly nose high and pulling power, just waiting for the mains to touch, hence the stall horn activating. I knew that I normally felt like my butt was on the runway, but this touchdown was just taking a long time, why had the mains not touched yet?..and I'm running out of runway.

 

This was over a year ago and I was still getting comfortable with the plane. I was also still getting familiar with the feeling of being seated so low in the Mooney and also how low you actually feel in the seat when you touchdown. In retrospect it was good that the runway was getting too short and I decided at the last minute to pull up and go around. Angels on the shoulder that day    I still get a little twitch if the stall horn sounds on landings, first thing I do is look AGAIN at the gear position. It's all good..LOL

[DonMuncy]

I have the relatively inexpensive "Bitchin Betty" wired into both the stall warning horn and the gear horn. I have ignored the horns, or wondered what the sound was, but I can not miss her saying "check gear, check gear" or "stall, stall, stall".

[flyboy0681]

 On a normal pattern entry, I do a BUMPS check on downwind, base and final. IFR it is done at the FAF and 500 feet above MAP.

 

The problem is, if there's a distraction your BUMPS call will not be part of the routine that day.

[flyboy0681]

I have the relatively inexpensive "Bitchin Betty" wired into both the stall warning horn and the gear horn. I have ignored the horns, or wondered what the sound was, but I can not miss her saying "check gear, check gear" or "stall, stall, stall".

 

If I had one I'd call her Stella, from the "I, Mudd" episode. 

[Mooneymite]

The problem is, if there's a distraction your BUMPS call will not be part of the routine that day.

 

Generally, the same thing that makes you forget to put the gear down will also make you forget your checklist.

[carusoam]

The key word is "distraction".

If you aren't familiar with how it works, search for it. There are half a dozen reasons for it and how to combat it.

The highest probable cause for it is landing after a go around. The brain rembers putting the gear down, but doesn't associate it to the first landing attempt.

Gumps a few times and the green light on the IP on every final.

If you forget to look (stress does this for you), or see no green light, go around.

The worst part about distraction is it can make you forget your rules when stress is elevated!

Stress, hunger, sleep deprivation, lowered O2 levels, confusion are inducers of distraction.

Now we're all students of brain functionality and cognition. Anyone using Lumosity?

My KLN90B has a programmable alarm for height above ground. The challenge is it comes on during a busy time and can be easily ignored/deferred...

Best regards,

-a-

[tomn]

I have the relatively inexpensive "Bitchin Betty" wired into both the stall warning horn and the gear horn. I have ignored the horns, or wondered what the sound was, but I can not miss her saying "check gear, check gear" or "stall, stall, stall".

+1 - Betty and I talk before we get to the airport and before gear down. I try to always check this on every flight.

[eaglebkh]

Does a "gear warning system" qualify as "something more sophisticated than the throttle-based system that came with the plane?"  I'm assuming this is the case, and that's why I voted for the bottom option.  I'm okay with the current throttle based system.  Are there cases where people are landing gear-up with the throttle above 15" or so?  That's the only way that I can think someone would miss it.

 

Maybe the horn just needs to be louder for some people?  How is it that people are hearing the gear horn so often that they are ignoring it?  I never hear my gear horn unless I'm practicing stalls with an instructor.