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^^^THIS^^^ @M20GforMe this is the bottom line. Personal experience and reading this forum has taught me that an airplane for sale that does NOT have deferred maintenance is a rare bird. Americans, or the pilot community, or maybe just Mooney people want "cheap" above all else, and nobody wants to spend money on an airplane that has fallen into disuse. You have received a ton of advice here mostly suggesting that you got screwed on the sale, and that you continue to get screwed by your shop. I'll swim upstream and say that a quick review of the estimate did not look wildly out of line to me. The hourly shop rate is not bad for your part of the country -- check out the hourly rate for a plumber. Sounds like they looked at everything, found a ton of discrepancies, and estimated the time and materials to fix everything. If I were in your shoes, I would work with this shop to understand what needs to be fixed to get your annual signed off and what can be deferred a year. The cost is brutal, but if you burn this bridge now, you may come to regret it later. Good shops are hard to find. Personal relationships are everything.

Also, don’t move the data plate. There were some strange years at Mooney. Data plates were installed on the right side FWD cabin vent scoop. I’d be happy to go over the list with you. Before a dime is spent on any component or upgrade, I would verify the state of corrosion on the airplane. Pull the rear seats out and check the rear spar and main spar webs and Caps. Nobody pulls the tape off the seat panels. -Matt

I’m going to strongly suggest they did not properly check the clearance on those rocker arms properly. If they are as tight and short as suggested, they wouldn’t have made it 800hrs AND you wouldn’t have had good compression.

The discrepancy list shows that they did a very thorough inspection which is a good thing. Not all of this needs to be fixed immediately, however, to legally and safely return the airplane to service. I would work with the shop to prioritize. A second opinion is always a good idea and I would not expect a reputable shop to object. I have even had shops call in another mechanic for a second opinion when they saw something questionable. Most of the labor estimates don’t seem unreasonable to me based on my experience. It took my mechanic a couple of hours to mount my McCauley prop on the new engine. And he’s done a lot of them. It’s tricky to torque the nuts and safety wiring with .040 wire is difficult with the nuts recessed in the hub. And properly shimming the spinner takes a bit of trial and error. It appears that your new bird has not been all that well maintained. This is not uncommon. I would just sit down with the shop owner/manager and work out a plan of action. This may be a new situation for you, but I guarantee it’s not the first one for the shop. Good luck

Great video, thanks for posting. There's something extra comforting about Janice making the videos from the right seat. Gives that "instructor" feel.

Do not let them spilt the case on your engine. I agree with a previous post who stated it would not have had good compressions and ran fine for 800 hours if the main case is as they are telling you. On another note if the main case had actually had too much material removed and line bored the back accessory case would not have been able to be fitted to the main case. There is a locating pin on each half of the main case. If too much material was removed these two pins would no longer line up with the accessory case. This is an issue of the A&P trying to apply a dry tappet clearance with a hydraulic lifter that has taken up this clearance. As previously stated you must remove the cup and the hydraulic lifter and remove all oil before attempting to use the dry clearance shown in the overhaul manual.

@M20GforMe If this hasn't been done, please do this before you do anything else

The reality is that this needs to be chalked up to experience. The only winners in any litigation will be the attorneys, you will spend more in fees than you will ever recover. You will also not be able to bring in another mechanic in, or move the plane for any less than you are currently stuck with. While it’s easy for us who have been owners for years to say this is the way it is, for a new, first time owner this is a bitter pill. Try to focus on the upside, which is that your plane will be tight and right after this, and like everyone else says, fly the heck out of it after and enjoy the confidence of a well maintained airplane. In a few years this won’t even be a blip on your radar.

Pretty sure the Brittain air filters are modified Fram fuel filters.

I am not sure some items deemed airworthiness items are really airworthiness items ( vacuum filter ??? seriously ? ) trim position ? was the whole rigging of the plane checked ? flat spot on tire ? 7 hours to change the tires ?

@M20GforMe You just call them and explain what you are facing and they have experts on call to help. You can explain what you are faced with and they will offer what plan you need Probably the $449 or $899 If you want them to step in then it would be the $899 If you want their advice and you present that to the shop yourself then the $449 one. In reality the $899 one is still a bargain considering what you are faced with for a bill at this time. I HAVE NO CONNECTION WITH SAVVY only have meet Mike several times and watched in person his presentations at seminars. He' helped a lot of folks over the years and he knows what to do.

Item 14 seems to have the labor rate off by a factor of 10 - turning a 1 hour item into $1350. Better check that total.

This is what many of us use MooneySpace for. I don’t know anyone at my airport with a Mooney, and I don’t know anyone anywhere who owns a Mooney aside from this community. Every time I have a question about anything, I post it here, and it’s been invaluable.

There are 4 in this image. The new-old stock Britain’s still have the sticker and you can see they cut off the inlet fitting. That’s all that’s different.

Does a M20G have fuel filters? Maybe it's a ragged out gascolator. Not to sound un-empathetic....but first time aircraft buyers have a large curve to climb. Beyond figuring out what the basic requirements are (capacity, speed, equipment) they must also understand the maintenance needs of airplanes and how to identify problems without completely relying a mechanic that they probably don't know that well. What is unairworthy is sometimes a blurred line. For example: The short flexible hoses in the wheel well of a Piper Arrow landing gear (retract) have a tag on them that indicate 4Q01. These hoses are 24 years old, stiff but no signs of leakage. Some will say they must be replaced, some would say they should be replaced, and others may say 'on condition' - no frays or leaks, let um ride. The real answer seems to depend on the shop your airplane is currently in. Some cases the shop recommends and the owner defers. I haven't seen a 50 year old airplane that doesn't have corrosion somewhere. If its substantial and in the wrong places, it's a problem and expensive. Otherwise, it just gets treated.

I'm not too sure about the engine issues. I'd listen to those here. Probably the same about relocating / adding a data plate. For everything else, be glad you have found a thorough shop that took the time to document everything wrong with your plane and offer to fix it. Don't be a CB. Fix what's wrong. If you're short on dollars and/or mechanically inclined, you can try to fix some of it yourself, limited by what's legal, but get it fixed. You don't have an $85k plane. You have a plane that would cost well over $1m to replace if new today, that takes $10-30k per year to maintain in a truly airworthy state. This year you got a $30k year. It hurts, but I've had some of those and the pain of paying the bill is outweighed by the satisfaction of having a clean, safe, and reliable machine, at least in my experience. I flew mine today and it felt great. Bonus points if you build a relationship with a local shop you can trust that will fix your next problem because you paid them to fix all these.

If you keep it long enough, this will happen several times during your ownership. And it will stink every time. You've just gotta fly it off. The more hours you fly and don't rent, the less it hurts.

The parts manual for our G model Mooneys show the Prestolite ALY-8403 as being the alternator originally installed. Hartzell says the current part number they are selling for our plane is ALX-8521 A standard alternator looks like this which is quite different than what you have installed. Im feeling pretty confident the alternator installed is not the right manufacturer. It looks as though the other companies like plane power are selling the same prestolite alternator under their own label, so unless there is a STC I haven’t come across then that doesn’t look like a proper alternator. Whoever put that 90 dollar rebuilt alternator in your plane should be nominated for king of the cheap bastards (also known as CBs on the forum).

No fire and no fuel stains on the asphalt with the wing tore off by the pole.

Here is the procedure for checking the dry valve clearance while replacing a cylinder. It is what needs to be done in your case. c. Removal of Hydraulic Tappet Sockets and Plunger Assemblies – It will be necessary to remove and bleed the hydraulic tappet plunger assembly so that dry tappet clearance can be checked when the cylinder assembly is reinstalled. This is accomplished in the following manner: (1) Remove the hydraulic tappet push rod socket by inserting the forefinger into the concave end of the socket and withdrawing. If the socket cannot be removed in this manner, it may be removed by grasping the edge of the socket with a pair of needle nose pliers. However, care must be exercised to avoid scratching the socket. (2) To remove the hydraulic tappet plunger assembly, use the special Lycoming service tool. In the event the tool is not available, the hydraulic tappet plunger assembly may be removed by a hook in the end of a short piece of lockwire, inserting the wire so that the hook engages the spring of the plunger assembly. Draw the plunger assembly out of the tappet body by gently pulling the wire. CAUTION NEVER USE A MAGNET TO REMOVE HYDRAULIC PLUNGER ASSEMBLIES FROM THE CRANKCASE. THIS CAN CAUSE THE CHECK BALL TO REMAIN OFF ITS SEAT, RENDERING THE UNIT INOPERATIVE

Yes, if the TIT varies when the fuel flow varies it is a real issue as opposed to an instrument issue. I had one fuel pump rebuilt as I mentioned, it had to go back once for a similar issue to yours. Don't know who the vendor was, it was 15 years ago. Good luck.

A few years ago, I called Brittain for some new air filters for my autopilot. I personally spoke to the owner of the company who sadly died a while ago. Instead of selling me the filters, he suggested to me to buy certain Fram fuel filters from the auto parts store and to trim it somehow at one end. He told me that this is exactly what they would do at Brittain. In addition to this filter, our planes contain many auto parts. In my Mooney, for example, the oil and fuel pressure sensors are both automotive parts, manufactured by VDO. Also, most of the light bulbs are automotive parts.

When I pulled a cylinder on my engine to replace a broken stud I definitely noticed that it was much more difficult to get the rockers back in. This concerned me at the time but the mechanic said as long as we put everything back the way it came out there is nothing to worry about with it being really tight. If the pushrods really were that out of spec then the valves would never close and you would have zero compression. Given the engine was running fine previously I think that mechanic should follow my mechanics advice and put everything back together the way it came apart.

It's nice to have all those options with the ability to switch them with a few taps.

Thanks. Everything seems fine today. Go figure.

I don’t believe the G1000 had Bluetooth. But even if it did, I would expect a hardwire connection since this is a factory installation. Bluetooth connections to the 345R can be problematic because the bulkhead in the rear of the baggage compartment shields the signal.

Is it possible that Garmin is releasing something new at Oshkosh that you may want to wait for?

This appears to be a message indicating that your ADS-B in device is no longer communicating with the G1000.

As I recall based on some reading in the past year, your IA is complying with DEA needs and regulations. The DEA needed it so their agents could easily find the plate. As a result, there is a rule as to where the place has to be and what it needs to contain. I know that many historical aircraft/data plates do not meet that regulation. One would have to read the regulations to determine whether, if you have a plate that pre-dates the rule, you have any obligation to move it. The issues that regularly come up for international travel are radio licenses, stickers, and 12 inch N# but I have never heard that brought up.

Oh that’s a good idea. Does the G1000 manual give information about the error message? If you know for sure that it’s a reception issue (or that it’s a connectivity issue), you could certainly narrow things down.

Did you check the notams for ADS-B outages? I see several NOTAMS about intermittent outages… May need to see if your area had them also… -Don

Agreed, but given some of the information provided I wasn't going to assume that any or all of the work stated actually needed to be done. A squawk list that long for a new owner with a new airplane smells a bit too much like opportunism to me without a second opinion from somebody Mooney-competent. It may be all or mostly legit, but I certainly wouldn't assume that when presented with a large repair estimate on inspection squawks.

If you don't need more than two seats, and frankly, most of us don't, Vans are a great option.

Best thing about summer is a good BLT.

Get in touch with Mike Busch at SavvyAvaition.com right now He is the guy you need for help RIGHT NOW His fees are reasonable and the cheapest money you will ever spend on your plane. savvyaviation.com Run don't walk to your computer!!!

Please don't scare/mislead a new owner - that is classic Mooney CB. @M20GforMe (CB is "cheap bastard" in Mooney-speak). No shop is going to give you a discount if they have a mechanic in training working on your plane. The shop rate is the shop rate.

Valve clearance needs to be checked with the tappets dry. If they didn't remove and empty the lifters, they're going to think the pushrod is too long. Essentially all reputable engine shops have had very long lead times for years. FWIW, based on what you've said so far, and the squawk list you got from the A&P I would STRONGLY suggest that you get an A&P who is very familiar with Mooneys to provide a second opinion on everything, including the engine issues. There are a number of things on the squawk list that I think need a second set of Mooney-experienced eyes, and I suspect much of that list (if not most or maybe all) does not represent airworthiness issues. DO NOT move the data plate until further investigation. Not all Mooneys had the data plate on the tail. Some were on the nose in front of the wing, and there may have been other places as well. This is one of those things that raises a yellow (if not red) flag. I wouldn't move the data plate unless there was a compelling reason to do so. "The A&P said so" is the LEAST compelling reason to do something like that. As a new aircraft owner you should be made aware that YOU, and not the A&P, are legally responsible for the maintenance on the aircraft. Ultimately you are in charge. Don't sign up for new engine mounts until you determine that the shims have been adjusted the maximum amount for any droop that may or may not be happening. Bottom line, I'd stop everything and get a 2nd opinion from an experienced Mooney mechanic. There are too many big questions about what you've described so far.

Well, it depends on how big the fluctuation is. I have had two engines with different fuel pumps and the fuel pump on the first engine was rebuilt back in about 2009 so that is three fuel pumps. All three behaved in basically the same way. When I fly LOP, very small changes in fuel flow will affect TIT, which is what I mainly watch. So it is not uncommon for the fuel flow to vary up and down a few tenths. And when I take a flight and set a LOP fuel flow it is also not uncommon for the fuel flow to increase by about .5 GPH or thereabouts, in the first ten or fifteen minutes, and for the MP to increase also. Probably this is because the aircraft is picking up speed and as it goes faster the ram air effect increases, and that increases MP which in turn increases fuel flow. I dial them down and after awhile the system finds and equilibrium. Remember that in the 231, fuel flow and manifold pressure are co-dependent, a change in one causes a change in the other. Now if your fuel flow variation is big, say 1 GPH or more, probably a fuel pump issue. But if it is relatively small the issue can be (1) the 231 MP and fuel flow control systems are inherently not that precise, or (2) there is an issue with the throttle control that in turn is reflected in changing fuel flows. Also, check the "waterwheel." That is the paddle wheel sensor that detects fuel flow and reports it to the engine monitor/display. I have had two of those wear out. You will see fairly large changes in fuel flow without significant changes in either MP or the temps that you would expect to see change if the fuel flow were actually fluctuating (EGTs and TIT). Relatively simple replacement. Best of luck, hope you can figure it out.

And, I'd be looking for a new urologist

Don't feel bad. Back in the 1990s my airline bought 5 used 737G's from Germania airlines because we were desperate for the lift, the market was hot and they could be had at a cheap price. They had no galleys so we knew we had to add them to meet our service requirements. Then we found out the floors were not strong enough (the factory strengthens the floors under galleys in production) so we had to do that. When we got into that mod, massive corrosion was found. When it was all done, we could have bought new 737s cheaper. On the ferry flight to headquarters, I had to shut down one engine due fire warning, then had to declare another emergency when the other engine developed low oil pressure. Had to replace both engines. The point of this story is sometimes in the heat of the moment to "buy something" even sophisticated buyers from one of the world's largest airline, supposedly the most sophisticated aviation people in the world can be taken for a ride. A humorous note is the airplanes were so problematic, we gave them evil movie names, such as "Chucky", "Christine", "Jason" etc. 3 years later they were gone and so was our money. Sorry for your troubles, the lesson is an expensive one and you are now the wiser for it.

First, I’m very sorry you have had such an unpleasant and stressful buying experience. That really sucks! As others have said it doesn’t sound like a strong case. You don’t know what was on that missing page or if there was nothing at all. A good case for fraud would be an entry describing significant work that was never actually done, for instance a pencil whipped engine overhaul. I also own a G model Mooney. Feel free to reach out if you have any G specific questions. I’ve really enjoyed my Mooney the last 4 years, they are great planes. What part of the country do you live in?

I think I’ll say the same thing as everyone else, but my $0.02 is to focus on the future. The best prebuy in the world won’t prevent you from finding corrosion or engine problems in your first year of ownership, and we all have a bit of a dice roll when we go into that first annual. You always budget for the unknown unknowns and hope it’s not as bad as you fear. The good news is that you bought the plane you wanted and that will make you happy. Just get it airworthy and fly the hell out of it.

It all depends on your wallet. Personally, I would not install a G5. While the G5 is nice, I would personally either just overhaul your AI or spend the extra money and get a GI275 because you get a ton of extra functionality with the 275 that you don't get with the G5.

I was fortunate enough to be asked to be a founding pilot of Honor flight. There were 2 Mooneys on that first flight, my F and copilot Roy Ellis, and Jeff Uphoff's 231 copiloted by Scott Hureau, a former E owner. This was one of the most fantastic things I have ever done in aviation. 6 planes descended upon Manassas where we were greeted by a bus provided by the local American legion and we transported 12 vets to their newly opened WWII memorial. It was heart touching. Today, the organization is well entrenched in commercial ops as the vets are almostly ambulatory https://www.honorflight.org/about-honor-flight-networtk/ Thanks for asking me to do this Karl Ludolph, Earl Morse! Mike Elliott founding pilot, Honorflight

Pilot reported engine issues Clearance at 14:15 ish Reports Engine trouble 16:34 engine issues Cleared to land any runway. https://archive.liveatc.net/kbvy/KBVY-Jun-19-2025-1230Z.mp3 -dan

with regard to the "car alternator" i have owned probably 50 vehicles in the last 40 years, and i have replaced three alternators. i have had 11 planes in the last 10 years and have replaced four alternators. i think the car ones may be more reliable!!!

Beverly plane crash leaves 1 dead, 1 injured – NBC Boston

Accident Mooney M20F N9573M, Thursday 19 June 2025