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Oh another thing I learned is to taxi with the mixture as far back as possible without quitting. This way if you forget to push it back in for takeoff, you’ll stumble the engine when you advance the throttle rather than cause detonation.

I posted this on Beechtalk, but for those not following BT, I think this would be useful here, too. I ran a GFC 500 YD test today. I have rudder trim, but kept it centered for takeoff. Given the HP of my airplane, there is a lot of P-factor and torque associated with a takeoff. I took off and held right rudder. At 800 feet, I turned on the YD and released the right rudder pressure I had been applying. The ball would not center. I turned off the YD, applied full right rudder trim, and turned the YD back on. The ball remained centered. I leveled off, increased speed, then turned the YD off. Upon release of the YD, the plane significantly "kicked" left indicating the YD servo had been working pretty hard. I centered the ball with rudder trim and engaged the YD. It remained centered. Conclusions: As mentioned in previous posts and by Garmin, the YD is not a rudder trim. Its purpose is to dampen yaw in turbulence, and based on its inputs, better coordinate turns. If you have rudder trim, use it as appropriate to center the ball, THEN engage the YD. So, for example, in the climb engage it after the rudder has been trimmed. Turn it off when leveling off, trim for cruise flight, THEN turn it back on. Results will be as expected; yaw damping in turbulence and coordination in turns. Some additional comments: The GFC 500 is really good, but I've found that if turbulence is moderate, I can fly turbulence much better than it can. Having said that, the YD stays on, as it really dampens yaw in turbulence better than I can. If you're upgrading to the GFC 500, complete the package with the addition of the YD. You will be glad you did.

Great discussion. I had my first 1975 F in 2001. Upgraded to 231 in 2005. Market tanked. Sold 231 to guy across the taxiway. Flew my sons Grumman til market came back. Bought back my 1975 F in 2011. Since then, upgraded paint, interior, avionics, Marquis engine. I ask myself often if I should move back up. My trips are mostly under 300 NM with an 800 NM to Mexico twice a year. For the Mexico 400 NM legs, I leave before the 231 and land within minutes of him. So, after looking at Ovations, 252s, Bravos, I have finally (today anyway) decided the F is my lifetime plane.

https://www.advancedpilot.com/articles.php?action=article&articleid=1844 came across this last night looking at APS. As @201er mentioned, Deakin suggests leaning enough that it would stumble if you forgot to enrichen on takeoff roll.

The Mooney you have today is better than any Mooney you might have tomorrow. They always say that buy a plane with the upgrades already done it's cheaper. However, you have kept your F for 17 years I have had mine for 9 years so far. My feelings are that if you are going to keep a plane for years it is cheaper to do the upgrades yourself since you can get want you want. Secondly, for the cost difference of moving up say $75AMU to a nice ovation you can get new paint, sealed tanks, interior maybe sandrec's new cowling and some avionics and still have a plane you know especially if you plan on flying for another 10 years or so.

Paul and I joined MooneySpace at about the same time, and we both started pulling away about the same time. For me, I kind of got burned out by reading the exact same conversations that recur every 3-6 months. Not sure about him, but it probably occupied a lot of his time. I was going to text him, but decided to respect his privacy.

I do lean aggressively on the ground after startup and have not had fouled plugs. I watch the RPM and look for a slight decrease in RPM. When doing my run up I increase the mixture but do not go full rich. After the run up I lean it back out again. Generally I have to add mixture when I go to taxi this also helps you not to forget to go full rich for takeoff. I use the boost pump for starting and takeoff.

That seems like a lot of work! When it’s time to do the run up (I wait until the CHTs are above 250 and oil temp above 100) I leave if leaned, go to 1600 RPM cycle the prop and hit “normalize.” Then I make sure the EGTs rise on all 6 cylinders when on a single mag then go back on both mags. The RPM drop will be higher but the engine still runs smoothly. I don’t even know if I’m ROP or LOP, I’m just a lot leaner than full rich. 1600 RPM seems to eat less rocks than 2000 RPM. My prop thanks me for that.

With an engine monitor I think you actually get better information doing a run up with a lean mixture than with a rich one - just don’t freak out when the RPM drop is higher than expected.

I've done that by accident but never as SOP. :> Sounds like I need to work on my leaning procedures and lean more aggressively on the ground.

I would be between a screaming eagle, an encore, or a missile. All can be had with great useful loads. The power of the missle and the screaming eagle is very nice. As @Parker_Woodruff stated useful load is very important to me and with the screaming eagle conversion and a full panel exchange i was able to get my useful load up to 1216 pounds. I can easily take 4 people, baggage and a good chunk of fuel. No AC and no tks, have most of what i actually use.

***Edit 12/2/2021, 14:27 - The M20J Guide has emailed to everyone that requested - please see the top post in General Mooney Talk about how to get the guide. And thank you for the contributions to MooneySpace. The best way you can thank me for the guide is to support MS*** I have emailed about 300 Mooney Pre-201 Value Guides in the last few days. The M20J Guide will be ready to email out either tomorrow or Thanksgiving Day. The info about the Guide is in the pinned post at the top of the General Mooney Talk Forum. Mooney owners get the guide free. Best way to get it is to email me at jimmy @ allamericanaircraft . com and give me your tail number. Will send out the 28 page guide to you via email. Thanks, Jimmy (GMax)

Just pull the mixture until the engine is just rich of rough. That is the most taxing test of the ignition system. There is no need to set run-up power with EGT. Incidentally, a properly set up Lyc IO360 typically does not typically foul plugs even when ground run with the mixture full rich.

Start with full aileron into the wind and then back off as needed. Track with rudder. Depending on wind direction the rudder feel can throw you. If it’s coming from the right it might feel like you are not applying enough rudder….at least what you muscle memory tells you. Landing is just the opposite, feed in aileron to full as you slow down. The Mooney is not very “tipsy”, so aileron won’t get a wing down until you are airborne.. at that point it feels more natural.

Although I have fond memories of listening to John Denver singing Rocky Mtn High as my dad and I flew a -172 over the Rockies in about 1982. We had to turn it way up to hear without headsets. Also, I think he was trying to use the radio station to figure out WTF we were!

I have to think about what I want the wheels to do. Downwind main comes off the ground first. Up wind main stays on the ground by itself for a couple moments, and comes off the ground second. That's just how I visualize what I'm trying to accomplish. Not a CFI.

Anyone who prefers to listen to AM Radio in 2021 needs to be dealt with.

5 years ago I upgraded from an '84J to '97 FIKI Encore. I wanted more weather capability. I wanted TKS and a turbo. I had grown frustrated with canceled flights in the J that a FIKI plane could make without difficulty. I'm not talking severe ice, merely flights in the winter where you might come across a cloud below freezing. The turbo allows flying at any desired altitude, most long trips are 16K to 17K. Then came the un-anticipated benefits. The newer plane has more soundproofing and is quieter. The 6 cylinder motor is smoother. No yellow band and vibration on approach that was so annoying in the J. The newer interior is much nicer, no more thin royalite plastic that always cracks.

no need for 2000; especially with an engine monitor since you can see each plug fire independently- that’s the best information you can get from a run up! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe an Encore (I know not eligible because of TC) or an Eagle with the 300hp STC. Honestly, neither really makes a lot of sense for me. To see an appreciable (to me) step up and still have a family plane, I would need to go with a different brand twin or oil burning single. I have a family of four and don't want to give up the (current 1058lbs) useful load. The extra speed really does not matter much for my missions (usually 300-600NM). I flew three adults, light bags and fuel for the round trip to Groton CT (just under 300NM) direct on Saturday at 9500ft at ~170KTS GS at peak EGT. Came home two hours later between 2000 and 3500 making nearly 150KTS GS into a light headwind running 20LOP (according J Garrison, stock Fs don't go this fast in 0 wind). Total round trip distance flown 574NM. Total airtime 3hrs 54mins (block speed of ~147kts). Total Fuel burned ~43 gals. This included a diversion to do the Hudson Skyline tour. There are faster, more capable Mooneys that look like a huge upgrade on paper. However, in terms of performance yield for a given input the performance is similar. Some just have the ability to go a bit faster on a lot more gas. For most missions, I think the real world differences from the lowest to the highest powered N/A M20s aren't that huge. The good news is the large displacement birds can be throttled back to near the same speed/efficiency ratio. If all weather capability is needed, that changes things a bit. For those of us that don't consider any piston single a prudent all weather option, it does not really matter very much. There are no low performance Mooneys. Just trade-offs in space, speed, fuel burn and UL. If you have one the currently works well for your mission, it's probably the right one. Subjectively, I really like the feel of the lighter airframes.

To me it's always been amazing how capable that autopilot was for the time. Bendix King was on top of the world then and that autopilot was a game-changer for GA. The fact that it's still a very capable autopilot 40 years later says a lot about the excellent design. I think the key to keeping these working is to let only the very best, most knowledgable even go near it. Shops that barely have a clue about this autopilot can do much more harm than good. Two people we have on Mooneyspace are the best of the best when it comes to the KAP/KFC: @Jake@BevanAviation @Bob Weber

This is extremely important advice! Once about 20 years ago, I forgot to richen the mixture on takeoff. 4 pistons and rings is about $1000, don't do it! That was the price of parts, I was doing the grunt labor. If you were paying someone to fix it you can double the price.

I’m LOP for pretty much everything but the takeoff/climb including ground operations. I lean for peak RPM on runup which is probably just a little rich of peak. Prevents fouling and tests things out well. Have no fear taxiing LOP, they say you can hurt the engine no matter how you lean it when below 60% power.

I ground lean very aggressively. To taxi I need to advance the mixture, not the throttle. For run-up I do NOT go to full rich, either. I can't remember the last time I've had a fouled plug. Boost for start, take-off, and landing.

I have two G5s and deleted the vacuum system when I put the second G5 in. No regrets at all, and it offers more redundancy than the airplane had with vacuum instruments. Deleting the vac system frees up a lot of space behind the panel as well as at the back of the engine. It's much easier to get at things with all of that gone, so maintenance is easier from that perspective. If you have a music input for your audio panel, get a little AM/FM/whatever receiver and ditch the boat anchor ADF receiver and its draggy antennas. If you don't have a music input for your audio panel, that should be a priority.

I'm going for an M20S for the useful load.

There are two Mooney models that I've long favored but can't justify for myself: the Encore is the ultimate Mooney (but turbocharged, so out of this discussion), and the wonderful Missile! But I'm still really enjoying my little C.

I finally got a reasonably good shot of the new panel. It's all done except for the Smart Glide button which is back ordered. But no problem because I understand that the G3X Touch Smart Glide software has slipped from late this year to Q1 or Q2 next year. A few comments on choices that might not be obvious. The iPad mini is powered by a USB charger mounted behind the panel. I moved the alternate static source valve/knob to the left because I find the most convenient place to stow the headset is on control shaft behind the yoke and the old knob placement was in the way. I added the AV-20-S as a tie breaker in the event of a G3X/G5 miscompare. I mounted it high in case the AoA indication proves to be useful (I don't have high hopes for it -- I never could get the Aspen AoA to be very accurate). I already had the GTX 345. I decided to replace the KX 165 (which worked fine) with a GNC 255 just for increased reliability/maintainability over the next ten years. The EDM 700 was in the center console next to the trim/flap indicators so removing it left a hole which I plugged with a Guardian CO detector. I only have a few hours on it -- mostly checking stuff out. It's all working fine and the autopilot seems rock solid. I really like the EIS and especially the position of the engine gauges next to the attitude display. Skip

While most of us agree with what you're saying - that's not the point. You knew that we would before you posted. If you want the partnership to last, communicate with him . . .and be willing to give and take. Even if you are polar opposites you can make it work if you talk it out and respect each other's reasons. Did you both put in 50% and buy it at the same time, or did one of you buy in on the other's airplane? That can be difficult if the original owner feels the other partner is trying to change everything, yet he feels it's good enough. I'm going to guess that the G5's were your idea. Nice upgrade. If he wants to keep the vacuum and the adf, in the grand scheme, you got your G5's.

I printed this for reference and noticed a few things I can improve on. Letting the engine warm up at 1200 (which is higher than I usually do), and lean and let the engine stabilize before shutdown (which is something I usually rush). Thanks.

Bryan and Skip, see below from Garmin: Smart Glide support with a variety of Garmin systems In certified aircraft, Smart Glide will become available with a GTN Xi series navigator paired with a compatible Garmin flight display including the G500 TXi™/G600 TXi, GI 275 electronic flight instrument, the G3X Touch™, or G5 electronic flight instrument, with others to be added later4. Compatible Garmin autopilots such as GFC 500 or GFC 600 can be automatically engaged when Smart Glide is activated5. For aircraft without a compatible Garmin autopilot, Smart Glide will still provide critical information and features to help manage engine emergencies and help to reduce pilot workload. Further, experimental aircraft with G3X Touch and a G3X autopilot can also enable Smart Glide technology when appropriately equipped.

Andddd I'm sold on the PJ2. Just ordered it. -Can plug in to wall adapter for "desk use" (or cig lighter in airplane) -Uses AA batteries, which is always on board for headsets -no digging around for the headset adapter -don't see the need for any navigation aides with 4 systems already available (2 panel GPS Nav comms, 1 ipad, 1 iphone (and Stratus).

Everyone above nailed it, but to your second point, I lean aggressively like everyone above and have never had my engine heat up much on the ground. In the air if you go lop it’s actually cooler. On the ground very lean seems plenty cool. I suppose if you were waiting a long time for takeoff on a very hot day, you might keep an eye on it, but temp doesn’t seem an issue with very lean ground ops. Your plugs will thank you!

I can tell you without doubt that it only makes financial sense to renew an old airplane if you enjoy and have some aptitude for restoration work. Much of the free time in my adult life has been spent bringing old things back to some semblance of their original form. I would be bead blasting, painting and turning wrenches with or without an airplane so there is little downside for me.

Strong winds are not that hard to deal with, but gusty winds can throw you for a loop.

I always use full aileron into the wind. As soon as you break ground (don't be crazy about it) you can level the wings and establish runway heading.

Lycoming has published a service instruction aimed at training aircraft, however our IO-360's will benefit from following the process as well. Basically lean for best power on the ground (RPM just drops) The flight training environment makes an engine more susceptible to spark plug fouling, decreased efficiency, and excessive fuel consumption. Some of the flight training profiles that cause these conditions include over-priming, prolonged idling, a taxi at low engine speeds, and extended operation at full rich mixture. This Service Instruction identifies recommended procedures that can decrease the aforementioned effects on the engine. https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Engine Procedures for Flight Training Operations.pdf

The POH on my J essentially says to do the runup with mixture full rich, but has a note saying that if there is doubt about the ignition system that you can retest at a leaner mixture. Once in a while if I get a slightly excessive mag drop it'll go away if leaned to peak rpm. Otherwise on the ground I have it pulled way back toward idle cutoff. One of the (many) advantages of having a quadrant is that it's pretty easy to see how far it is from the end of travel.

So you use the engine monitor to find LOP at run up RPMs, then do the mag check and look for the uniform EGT increase? I typically operate 300 feet above sea level and don't do much leaning on the ground. I need to improve my SOP.

Odd that he would remove himself from here and not the Spacebook groups. I did the exact opposite. he converted to an encore and has no more use for us peasants.

I will be back out at the plane Friday, weather permitting, if you have more questions. G5 RS232 - input MapMX, output none, baud 38400 ARINC429 - input 1: Garmin gps (SDI 1), input 2: Garmin VOR/ILS (SDI 1) Avidyne Main ARINC 429 - in 3: low, off; out 3: low, off, SDI: LNAV 1 Main system config - Appr Roll Steer: enabled Main RS232 - CHNL 1: off, MapMX CHNL 2: Off, Aviation CHNL 3: transponder stuff rest not set Main ARINC 429 - in 1: low, EFIS/Airdata in 2: Low, Off Out 1: low, GAMA 429 Graphics out 2: low, off SDI: LNAV 1 VNAV: Enable Labels proceed with caution, this is an F model, ymmv, etc.

That panel looks very clean and well thought out.

I had a choice of Ovation or Bravo when I bought new in 2003. I went Ovation. I'm good with that looking back 20 years. Having 1070# useful is important to me. I have no AC, FIKI or O2 installed. I did have a few days delay in WA last Xmas due to ice. I'm ok with delays once in while as a trade off. I had no wx delays going to Maine and FL last summer. Yesterdays flight home from AZ on flightaware: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1029M just lower than usual for winds. Fridays flight over there was at normal 10K'. Speeds about the same just more fuel lower. Passengers I fly with, especially wife, don't like wearing O2 up high. Good luck. Tom

What a great thread to read! I am a new Mooney owner, and am still a student pilot currently. I would like to give my thoughts on this, albeit very limited still compared to the rest of you!! So, I am about 54 hours in to my training, and 48 of those were in a C172. While, I believe that training in a complex from the get go is doable, I can't imagine how much more involved it would be. The Mooney sorta fell in to my lap, as the other GA guys on field where I train knew I was looking for one. This one was located on field, and the owners couldn't fly it anymore and needed to get rid of it. Anyways, Going from the 172 to this was AMAZING. The differences were way more than I expected, and am extremely happy that I have the knowledge, training, and hours on the 172 prior to the transition. My instructor and I sat down, and discussed at length the advantages and disadvantages of finishing my ppl in my Mooney, but in the end we both felt that I was ready, and decided to transition. Learning everything, from communications, to maneuvers is not crazy different, but enough that having the ability to go slower, and not have to be perfectly on the numbers on every landing, etc has helped lesson that learning curve of starting in a complex. With that said. I can only take lessons twice a week, which gives me a couple hours of flight time a week after the ground work. Having more time to dedicate to this may have changed my opinion on this. At the end of the day, I am thankful for starting out on the 172, and then moving to the Mooney. It also gave me WAY more respect for my instructor and his constant push for me to focus on pattern work, and speeds which has helped me 100%. For insurance. Everybody is right. Uhm, I don't want to discuss insurance lol. There is one company in the country that will insure a student pilot with retractable gear.. And they make you pay for it. HOLY CRAP! Good luck with your decision! -Chris

Ditto. Dual G5s, no vacuum. I kept my KX 155 and KI 209 so with GNC355, I'm covered - iPad is backup for emergencies with the Stratus... -Don

Thank you all so much for your advice. I’m going to go through all of the logs and make myself as familiar as I can. I’m located in London Ont., and a member named Deb has recommended a mechanic near me, in Kitchener who sounds like a Mooney specialist. To my dismay, I’ve been unable to find hangar space near me. I’m thinking of buying a full set of covers (engine, canopy, wings and horizontal stab.) from Bruce covers in the meantime, hoping that will be enough to keep it safely outside. Does anyone have experience with that company? Also, I went to fly this morning, only to discover that I had no intercom, and pretty much no radio function. I could hear faint mumbles from ground frequency, at full volume on the radio. Neither comm 1 or 2 would work. The radios worked when I flew last night, but were iffy with reception and at one point the transponder turned itself off for 3 minutes, before coming back on and working. Does anyone have any idea what the problem could be with the radios? They worked fine at the pre buy inspection and when I picked her up.

Or he doesn’t want to.

Learn to land in something other than a Mooney. Then transition to the Mooney.

it is very tight in there. It is a PITA to get it out and put it back in. The biggest problem is the length of the spark plug wires. you can barely get the cap out of the way. If you undo the wires from cylinders 2 and 4, both top and bottom along with all their clamps and ties, it will make your life much easier. When you put it back in, put the gear in the engine and slide the mag into the cushions. Good luck finding the perfect combinations of sockets and extensions that allow you to swing a torque wrench. I use a deep 1/2" 1/4 drive with a 2" extension. Practice your cursing beforehand, you don't want to go into this unprepared.