Lood Posted April 12, 2013 Report Posted April 12, 2013 I dropped off my Mooney early this morning at my AME and they flew me back home in an Ovation. I've sat in one before, but never flew in one. What can I say - it is the most incredible and amazing airplane if flown. I poled it from the right seat a bit and other than that, I just sat back and enjoyed the ride - immensely. I can get used to a 1000 - 1500ft/min climb and cruising at 170 -180 kts. Specially in that kind of comfort and quietness. The pilot assured me that if I was impressed with the performance of this 280hp model, the 310hp version will blow me away. One day, when I'm beeeeg... 1 Quote
Jeff_S Posted April 12, 2013 Report Posted April 12, 2013 Yeah, I too am always thinking about what might come after my J. I'm torn between finding a well-equipped Encore (I know of several) or going to an Ovation. On paper for me it seems the Ovation fits a sweet spot. Enough power to fly higher even though normally aspirated, and maybe better overall economies. I need to find a ride in one! Quote
carusoam Posted April 12, 2013 Report Posted April 12, 2013 +1 It is real, it was not just a dream... Best regards, -a- Quote
fantom Posted April 12, 2013 Report Posted April 12, 2013 -1 What you have is more than enough. There is always something faster, bigger, and more expensive. 3 Quote
drewjensen Posted April 12, 2013 Report Posted April 12, 2013 -1...and +1. I currently fly a 68 G model that has been in my family since 1973. It is the plane I grew up with and feel very blessed to own it and have the ability to fly my own plane. Having said that when I get a chance to ride in my father's '05 Ovation 2 it is hard to not get a little jealous. Quote
BorealOne Posted April 12, 2013 Report Posted April 12, 2013 +1 - the Ovation is definitely a sweet spot in the Mooney line-up. Quote
rbridges Posted April 12, 2013 Report Posted April 12, 2013 Yeah, I too am always thinking about what might come after my J. I'm torn between finding a well-equipped Encore (I know of several) or going to an Ovation. On paper for me it seems the Ovation fits a sweet spot. Enough power to fly higher even though normally aspirated, and maybe better overall economies. I need to find a ride in one! Given my budget and needs, I think a J would be my perfect plane. Unfortunately with bladders, GPSS and WAAS upgrades, I've spent a good chunk of money to get my plane where I want it and relatively squawk free-knock on wood big time. I don't want to start over. If my income were to double, I'd have an Ovation or Acclaim in my hangar, lol. 2 Quote
aviatoreb Posted April 12, 2013 Report Posted April 12, 2013 Given my budget and needs, I think a J would be my perfect plane. Unfortunately with bladders, GPSS and WAAS upgrades, I've spent a good chunk of money to get my plane where I want it and relatively squawk free-knock on wood big time. I don't want to start over. If my income were to double, I'd have an Ovation or Acclaim in my hangar, lol. You need to start convincing him that he needs a TBM850 because that old Ovation is just a hand-me-down. 1 Quote
Marauder Posted April 12, 2013 Report Posted April 12, 2013 Given my budget and needs, I think a J would be my perfect plane. Unfortunately with bladders, GPSS and WAAS upgrades, I've spent a good chunk of money to get my plane where I want it and relatively squawk free-knock on wood big time. I don't want to start over. If my income were to double, I'd have an Ovation or Acclaim in my hangar, lol. Amen brother! I'm at the same place. My F with the mods on it does 155k and that is plenty for me... I certainly don't want to start over either... 1 Quote
M016576 Posted April 12, 2013 Report Posted April 12, 2013 I dropped off my Mooney early this morning at my AME and they flew me back home in an Ovation. I've sat in one before, but never flew in one. What can I say - it is the most incredible and amazing airplane if flown. I poled it from the right seat a bit and other than that, I just sat back and enjoyed the ride - immensely. I can get used to a 1000 - 1500ft/min climb and cruising at 170 -180 kts. Specially in that kind of comfort and quietness. The pilot assured me that if I was impressed with the performance of this 280hp model, the 310hp version will blow me away. One day, when I'm beeeeg... -1. I got a ride back in a '07 ovation after dropping my J off at LASAR and was wholly unimpressed. Maybe I was expecting too much? We were cruising at 7500', burning twice the fuel of my J and not much faster. I did like the G1000 cockpit, though... But the price is something I didn't like! I don't know, the climb rates between these mooneys- from the C to the R all seem about the same to me up to 10K. Obviously the time to get there changes a little, but when your day job has you climbing at 15,000 FPM at 250 kts and 20-30 degrees nose high, splitting hairs over 500 or so FPM becomes harder to do... Then again, if you're taking off from mammoth in the summer time, that extra 500 or so FPM does make quite a difference! Quote
aviatoreb Posted April 13, 2013 Report Posted April 13, 2013 -1. I got a ride back in a '07 ovation after dropping my J off at LASAR and was wholly unimpressed. Maybe I was expecting too much? Yeah - you said it. Tell you what - trade you my rocket for your F15. Quote
bd32322 Posted April 13, 2013 Report Posted April 13, 2013 I do place value on the updated interiors, nice panel instrumentation and lighting that the modern Mooneys have - such as the late 90's Ovations, Encores etc. However, I think Ovation performance is middle of the road. If I wanted economy I would get a J. If I wanted climb and go fast, I would get a 252/Rocket/Bravo. Quote
carusoam Posted April 13, 2013 Report Posted April 13, 2013 Bd, You left out the Acclaim? Performance is limited by what you will afford. Is there a faster, factory built, NA, four seater available? I must like middle of the road performance. My view is pretty narrow... M016..., does your boss let you take the daily driver out for a spin on weekends? Can you take the kids along? 2X is a little bit of an exaggeration of fuel flow. 12gph nets 160kts ground speed. 15 gph nets 175. Give or take. For comparison, my M20C would burn 10gph. I like the J, too... And the C... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
M016576 Posted April 13, 2013 Report Posted April 13, 2013 Bd, You left out the Acclaim? Performance is limited by what you will afford. Is there a faster, factory built, NA, four seater available? I must like middle of the road performance. My view is pretty narrow... M016..., does your boss let you take the daily driver out for a spin on weekends? Can you take the kids along? 2X is a little bit of an exaggeration of fuel flow. 12gph nets 160kts ground speed. 15 gph nets 175. Give or take. For comparison, my M20C would burn 10gph. I like the J, too... And the C... Best regards, -a- True- hard to fit a family of four in a single seat fighter ! I wouldn't want to pay the fuel or maintenance bills on the Eagle, either!!! Costs more to fill up and maintain for a 0.8 than my mooney's worth!!!! It was about 2 times (a little less)- I cruise at 155 at 9gph... We were seeing about 175 at 16gph. My point was more that I was expecting to be blown away (ie 200+ on 16-18) and I wasn't. Probably because I didn't research it prior to flight. Quote
M016576 Posted April 13, 2013 Report Posted April 13, 2013 Yeah - you said it. Tell you what - trade you my rocket for your F15. the keys to dad's car come with some serious handcuffs Quote
aviatoreb Posted April 13, 2013 Report Posted April 13, 2013 True- hard to fit a family of four in a single seat fighter ! I wouldn't want to pay the fuel or maintenance bills on the Eagle, either!!! Costs more to fill up and maintain for a 0.8 than my mooney's worth!!!! It was about 2 times (a little less)- I cruise at 155 at 9gph... We were seeing about 175 at 16gph. My point was more that I was expecting to be blown away (ie 200+ on 16-18) and I wasn't. Probably because I didn't research it prior to flight. Now family of four - no problem. You just need to be creative and think outside the box. Now we all know that weight and balance isn't the problem to also carry your wife and tiny kiddies. Isn't that why there are hard points on your nice shiny F15? I bet with a little STC paper work and some creative invention you could design and build a nice pressurized chamber to comfortably hold your family to attach to the hard points. Grandma too. Better make it out of clear plastic to improve the view. Ok, I admit the fuel bill would be a problem. Quote
rbridges Posted April 13, 2013 Report Posted April 13, 2013 Amen brother! I'm at the same place. My F with the mods on it does 155k and that is plenty for me... I certainly don't want to start over either... Agreed. It's hard to spend more money when what you have is already working well. Quote
bd32322 Posted April 13, 2013 Report Posted April 13, 2013 Bd, You left out the Acclaim? Performance is limited by what you will afford. Is there a faster, factory built, NA, four seater available? I must like middle of the road performance. My view is pretty narrow... -a- Hope you didnt take it the wrong way I am flying a J which is probably true middle of the road (between E and R). I used to distinguish between turbo and non-turbo when I bought my J (first airplane). I do not anymore, which is why the Ovation appears in the middle of the pack among performance Mooneys. As for price, the rockets are priced way less than any ovation. But its a wash in my mind, because with Ovations you get a lot newer airfame and a truly desirable interior, equipment, panel etc. I am actually trying to decide between an ovation and rocket nowadays, to replace my J Quote
carusoam Posted April 14, 2013 Report Posted April 14, 2013 No problem... I always wanted a Turbo Mooney. But it doesn't fit my mission as my NA plane does. I looked into repowering with the TN IO550, but there is no STC for the R. I was reading T.A.P this morning. Looking at twins because somebody opined the other day that twins were selling at the price of the engines. Damn, he was near right on. Aerostars for less than Ovations... Still not my mission though... My mission has remained the same... Four seat, factory built, NA, for increased HP, increase the displacement and rpm. I briefly considered a Missle conversion. Not being "factory built" it was hard to get information about them that wasn't tainted. This was just before the launch of MooneySpace of course. Without MS it was impossible to tell the difference between Rocket Engineering and that unappreciated shop that was in FL. Fortunately, with MS, you can ask real owners that share your mission. The O3 is a factory built inclusion of the Sceamin' Eagle Modifications...a similarly updated Ovation1 is a scream! You won't go wrong with either one (my opinion). Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
N1026F Posted April 22, 2013 Report Posted April 22, 2013 I went from a '78J model to a '04R (Ovation2). I still think that J model (210YG) is the fastest cruise (165kts) J model out there...But, if I pull the power back a bit in the Ovation, it will see the gas burn numbers at very close to the same speed as the J model. Err...uhh... that's not why you upgrade. I keep it between 7500ft and 10,500ft most of the time and cruise at 182-185 30* ROP. (After the Victor Engine rebuild break in period, I'll go LOP--different thread...) Anyways, I was convinced to upgrade by riding in a friends '94 ovation and noticing the huge difference in the smoothness of the engines. Then I looked at the market for J models and the Ovations and what I could get by an upgrade. The "little things" add up: redundancy,newer standard avionics, redundancy oxygen, redundancy, shoulder belts, speed brakes, redundancy, back up electrical system, better interior and exterior lighting, newer paint, newer interior, newer wiring harness--redundancy. If you're one of those people that like to keep improving your plane by making upgrades, look at the cost efficiency of just getting a newer plane. If you're one of those people that gets more thrill from flying a more basic plane and doing so at the least cost, recognize that and shop wisely; planes are luxuries--choose your favorite logical construct and then, if you dare, try to convince the rest of us that you're making the right decision. Some will agree and some won't... 1 Quote
M016576 Posted April 23, 2013 Report Posted April 23, 2013 I went from a '78J model to a '04R (Ovation2). I still think that J model (210YG) is the fastest cruise (165kts) J model out there...But, if I pull the power back a bit in the Ovation, it will see the gas burn numbers at very close to the same speed as the J model. Err...uhh... that's not why you upgrade. I keep it between 7500ft and 10,500ft most of the time and cruise at 182-185 30* ROP. (After the Victor Engine rebuild break in period, I'll go LOP--different thread...) Anyways, I was convinced to upgrade by riding in a friends '94 ovation and noticing the huge difference in the smoothness of the engines. Then I looked at the market for J models and the Ovations and what I could get by an upgrade. The "little things" add up: redundancy,newer standard avionics, redundancy oxygen, redundancy, shoulder belts, speed brakes, redundancy, back up electrical system, better interior and exterior lighting, newer paint, newer interior, newer wiring harness--redundancy. If you're one of those people that like to keep improving your plane by making upgrades, look at the cost efficiency of just getting a newer plane. If you're one of those people that gets more thrill from flying a more basic plane and doing so at the least cost, recognize that and shop wisely; planes are luxuries--choose your favorite logical construct and then, if you dare, try to convince the rest of us that you're making the right decision. Some will agree and some won't... The little things certainly add up if you're an "upgrader". But so does operating cost for an aircraft that's too big / fast / not optimized for your mission. I keep drooling over 58P's... Beautiful airplane: pressurized, great useful load. Ultimate in redundancy (2 motors!). But the operating costs are rediculous for me... I could probably buy it, but couldn't afford to keep it, let alone fly it. Particularly since my 95% mission is ~300NM. A M20J works perfectly for me. Takes about 2 hours give or take, fuel and maintenance aren't eating me out of house and home and the difference in time I'd be flying is only about 20 minutes once all is said and done. I can apply that same logic to any of the larger mooney's, too- they just cost more to operate, without a significant performance increase. The only thing I'm lacking is TKS, but flying IFR in the wintertime in icing conditions in the Rockies has never been high on my list of "fun things to do." I get enough of that at work! . So what's my point? Sometimes upgrading the airframe isn't the right thing to do. Ultimately though, there are guys out there with tons of cash that can buy whatever they want as operating costs aren't a factor- which is OK too! One day, it would be nice to be one of them. Until then, I have my J! Quote
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