Aspen Avionics Information

[Marauder]

I thought I would share a couple of things with you on the Aspen suite of products. I know there have been several mentions of how hot these units seem to run. I was speaking with a technical support engineer for Aspen today and mentioned this to him. He said that they were designed to run hot through the front! He told me that Aspen's heat dissipation design is for the front of the unit to transmit the heat out of the unit through the aluminum shell surrounding the bezel. Their theory is that the front of the panel will always be open and the rear could be jammed in close fitting environment of a snug panel. Interesting way of doing it. For those of you with the MFD and use both the Jepp Nav data and Seattle Avionics charts, you know that Aspen provided only one data card with the MFD. Since the chart data transfer from Seattle Avionics can take a couple of hours, I went looking for a second card. Jepp is the only source for this card. Aspen provided me the Jepp part number of 10192907. The Jepp price is: $275 with a terrain database on it. Jepp has a promo going on now and will give you $20 off using the discount code MAR13. It is supposed to be used for online orders only but they accepted it over the phone. They ASSURED me this card will work as I need it to work. They have a 30 day return policy and wrote it on my order just in case... I will keep you posted on it.

[Oscar Avalle]

I thought I would share a couple of things with you on the Aspen suite of products.

I know there have been several mentions of how hot these units seem to run. I was speaking with a technical support engineer for Aspen today and mentioned this to him. He said that they were designed to run hot through the front! He told me that Aspen's heat dissipation design is for the front of the unit to transmit the heat out of the unit through the aluminum shell surrounding the bezel. Their theory is that the front of the panel will always be open and the rear could be jammed in close fitting environment of a snug panel. Interesting way of doing it.

For those of you with the MFD and use both the Jepp Nav data and Seattle Avionics charts, you know that Aspen provided only one data card with the MFD. Since the chart data transfer from Seattle Avionics can take a couple of hours, I went looking for a second card. Jepp is the only source for this card. Aspen provided me the Jepp part number of 10192907. The Jepp price is: $275 with a terrain database on it. Jepp has a promo going on now and will give you $20 off using the discount code MAR13. It is supposed to be used for online orders only but they accepted it over the phone.

They ASSURED me this card will work as I need it to work. They have a 30 day return policy and wrote it on my order just in case... I will keep you posted on it.

Thank you. I was wondering if they had done something wrong during the installation.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[jackn]

I was told by a reputable avionics shop, that Aspen actually puts a heater in the PFD to stabilize the barometric transducer.

[KSMooniac]

I'm curious about the data/subscription requirements for Aspens...  can one of you clue me in for the following configurations?

 

(A)  Aspen PFD Pro (1 tube only) coupled to a Garmin GNS/GTN/whatever... any data subscription required, or optional?

 

( B )  Aspen PFD Pro + MFD 1000 (2 tube, reversionary capability) coupled to same GPS stack... what data subscriptions are required, or optional?

 

Assuming I keep the Jepp/NAV data current on the Garmin GPS boxes, will the waypoints "port" over to the Aspen suite, or must an identical subscription be purchased that feeds the Aspen(s) directly?  

 

I'm just beginning to seriously consider a PFD upgrade, but I hate the recurring costs and want to figure out if/what/how much is needed.  I'm not really interested in having charts or plates on the MFD, but would like to know how much they cost just in case I change my mind.  I'm already paying for two GNS subscriptions and XM WX.

 

Thanks!

[Oscar Avalle]

I am just updating the Garmin databases on the GTN 750 with a Jepp subscription. But I am also wondering about what is going on with the ASPEN...

[David Mazer]

When I was at OSH the Aspen people told me there was no need to update the Jepp data.  I canceled my subscription and haven't updated it in over a year.  I don't use the Seattle Avionics plates on the Aspens as I have an EFB subscription and I find the Aspen/Seattle Avionics charts very expensive.  So, the shorter answer is you don't require any subscritptions for the Aspens if you keep your 430/530/650/750 updated and have another source for plates.

[Marauder]

I'm curious about the data/subscription requirements for Aspens...  can one of you clue me in for the following configurations?

 

(A)  Aspen PFD Pro (1 tube only) coupled to a Garmin GNS/GTN/whatever... any data subscription required, or optional?

 

( B )  Aspen PFD Pro + MFD 1000 (2 tube, reversionary capability) coupled to same GPS stack... what data subscriptions are required, or optional?

 

Assuming I keep the Jepp/NAV data current on the Garmin GPS boxes, will the waypoints "port" over to the Aspen suite, or must an identical subscription be purchased that feeds the Aspen(s) directly?  

 

I'm just beginning to seriously consider a PFD upgrade, but I hate the recurring costs and want to figure out if/what/how much is needed.  I'm not really interested in having charts or plates on the MFD, but would like to know how much they cost just in case I change my mind.  I'm already paying for two GNS subscriptions and XM WX.

 

Thanks!

 

 

I am just updating the Garmin databases on the GTN 750 with a Jepp subscription. But I am also wondering about what is going on with the ASPEN...

 

Ok, let me see if I can help.

 

First of all, the only legal required databases that need to be updated are the ones in your IFR approved GPS units. That said, I know there are a number of aviation threads that spoke specifically of alternative ways of compliance by manually verifying the accuracy of the navigation data rather than just updating it (I'm too lazy and consider updating the data on the cycles the easiest way). Keep in mind the only database that needs to be updated or verified is the Nav data. Obstacle, terrain, cultural & base are advisory in nature. The Nav data is the "to be legal in the IFR" stuff.

 

So... for the Aspens;

 

Scott -- you do not need to update any database on the Aspens since they are not your legal navigation system. However, if you are an anal retentive type like me, you will want to update the databases. At least periodically. SO where do you get this stuff?

 

Aspen PFD Pro -- ships without a micro SD card. Nothing to update UNLESS you go to ESV. Then you get a micro SD card that stays in the PFD and will come with a database. This database can be updated and here is what is updated:

 

 

Database components required to render the ESV image, and their update frequency are as follows:

• Terrain: infrequently, as needed only
• Obstacles: every 28 days
• Navigation information (e.g. runways): every 28 days
• Cultural data (e.g. lakes, rivers, borders): every 28 days

If you purchase an Aspen PFD Pro and MFD 1000 without ESV, then only the MFD comes with a micro SD data card. On it will be the following:

 

 

 

NavData®: Airports, runways, frequencies, navaids, controlled airspace and restricted airspace.

Obstacle data: Depiction of the location and height of man-made obstacles that extend above the ground.

Cultural data: Contains boundary and reference information for countries, other major political subdivisions, large water bodies, coastlines, time zones, and other physical and political features.

Terrain data: Data that depicts the contours and shapes of the surface of the earth. The 3 arc second terrain database, mainly due to the large file size, lives on the micro SD card that loads into the front of the EFD display. The terrain data will only be updated on an as needed basis and is not a part of the normal 28-day data update cycle from Jeppesen.

 

 

In addition, it will come with Seattle Avionics Chart subscription:

 

As an Aspen operator, you will be able to see and reference FAA certified Instrument Approach Procedure charts, Departure Procedure charts, Standard Terminal Arrival Route charts, and geo-referenced FAA airport diagrams right on your Aspen MFD. You can zoom and pan on these charts and diagrams with an easy-to-use interface. Geo-referenced airport diagrams display aircraft position accurately right on top of the FAA diagram, increasing situational awareness while maneuvering on the ground, making ground operations safer. All 12,000+ certified FAA Instrument Approach Procedures for airports in all 50 states are available for reference.  

 

 

In a nutshell:

 

If you buy an Aspen Pro without ESV -- no database to update Cost: FREE

If you buy an Aspen Pro with ESV -- urged to buy a Jepp terrain, obstacle, cultural database from Jeppesen Cost: Don't know and it is not listed on their website. You need to call for pricing.

If you buy an Aspen MFD 1000 without ESV -- optional nav database subscription that includes cultural & obstacle data in a single update using jsum from Jeppesen. Cost: $358/year

If you buy an Aspen MFD 1000 with ESV -- urged to buy a Jepp terrain, obstacle, cultural database from Jeppesen Cost: Don't know and it is not listed on their website. You need to call for pricing.

If you buy an Aspen MFD 1000 w/ or w/o ESV -- can buy charts from Seattle Avionics. Cost: $299 annually. I got it for $199 as part of a special. 

 

Since we are talking about databases and you (Scott) mentioned paying for two GNS subscriptions. I previously reported on another thread that the Pilot Paks from Garmin include ALL GTN products in the plane for a single price (~$890/yr). I found out from Jepp that they offer a similar Pilot Pak and they sold it to me for $784/yr. AND told me that it covered all radios in the plane. I only have 1 at this time. It was NOT the $1415 I reported on that thread. However -- if you go through the website the way I did, you would get the $1415 price. Hmmm.... wonder how many got caught with that?

 

Keep in mind that the GPS is the primary nav database for flight. The Aspens have nav and terrain data and can operate as primary GPS in the case of an emergency. If you lose your Garmin GPS, the Aspen will remember the flight plane route and display it. What I like about the Aspens is the fact they have battery backups. So, if you do lose electrical, you have at least some means to navigate for some period of time. Coupled with the iPad, Nexus or portable, you have some assurances.

 

Let me know if this helps.

[wishboneash]

You stated " I found out from Jepp that they offer a similar Pilot Pak and they sold it to me for $784/yr. AND told me that it covered all radios in the plane. I only have 1 at this time. It was NOT the $1415 I reported on that thread.". 

 

You mean other similar panel IFR GPSs? I assume it doesn't cover any of the portables like the 696 or 796. I have the Garmin subscription for the GTN 650, didn't realize the Jepp was almost $100 cheaper.

[Marauder]

Wishboneash - Yes, similar radios. If you have 2 GTNs in the plane, they would allow you to cover both with one subscription. I found ordering through Jepp frustrating. When I purchased the GTN software I went through configuration tool on their website. It indicated that the NavData subscription for $425 included all you would need to update your GTN. The website is misleading. The $425 does not include obstacle, cultural & terrain updates. I called them up to complain and they sent me a link for another website where you could buy that data. And of course when you buy it that way, it is more costly. No mention of Pilot Paks or a reduced rate for a combined purchase. It was after speaking to them several times did they indicate they sold Pilot Paks. The Aspen stuff has no way currently to order online. You need to call them. The good news is that at least everything is included in the price. The bad news is that everything is included in the price. You can't pick what data you want. I think the portables may be treated separately with Jepp. Does Garmin treat them separately? I know they too have the Pilot Paks. Does it include the portables?

[Marauder]

Here is the link to the Jepp website. What irritated me was the description of "included services". It leads you to believe you get the obstacle, terrain as part of the subscription you are about to order. It does NOT. I let Jepp know this is misleading because the ordering through this section will only give you NavData.

http://jeppdirect.jeppesen.com/legal/charts/ads-overview.jsp

[fantom]

You have convinced me to stick with my antiquated round AI & HSI for the foreseeable future

[Marauder]

You have convinced me to stick with my antiquated round AI & HSI for the foreseeable future

 

Too funny but true! The subscription prices and complexity can bring tears to your eyes. The plus side is that once you fly behind one, you never would want to go back.

[KSMooniac]

Marauder, thank you very much for the details!  You confirmed what I suspected... I can be safe and legal with my existing data subscriptions (robbery) for my two GNS units.  I could see updating others once every year or two, though, but certainly not every 28 days.  I've updated my 496 once in 6 years.

[wishboneash]

Marauder, I found the Jepp subscription for just the Nav data for around $470. Then since you mentioned the Pilotpak, I found that later after poking around a bit ($784). The Garmin Pilotpak is configurable to some extent (Lite, Standard). The standard which is what I have is $862. They include all panel GPSs if I read their webpage correctly with one subscription. They don't include the portables. Too bad.

 

https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/pilotpak/

 

 

Wishboneash - Yes, similar radios. If you have 2 GTNs in the plane, they would allow you to cover both with one subscription. I found ordering through Jepp frustrating. When I purchased the GTN software I went through configuration tool on their website. It indicated that the NavData subscription for $425 included all you would need to update your GTN. The website is misleading. The $425 does not include obstacle, cultural & terrain updates. I called them up to complain and they sent me a link for another website where you could buy that data. And of course when you buy it that way, it is more costly. No mention of Pilot Paks or a reduced rate for a combined purchase. It was after speaking to them several times did they indicate they sold Pilot Paks. The Aspen stuff has no way currently to order online. You need to call them. The good news is that at least everything is included in the price. The bad news is that everything is included in the price. You can't pick what data you want. I think the portables may be treated separately with Jepp. Does Garmin treat them separately? I know they too have the Pilot Paks. Does it include the portables?

[Bennett]

Back to Aspen in a minute.  I am beginning to think that participating in these forums causes contagion to our aircraft.  A couple of weeks ago there was some discussion about King / Allied / Honeywell KAP autopilots "bobbing in pitch". Well, my KAP 150 had run perfectly for the two and a half years I have owned my current Mooney, but about a week ago I noticed the onset of a pitch bobbing - about 30 cycles per minute. Dang, she caught the disease.  I flew her to LAC Avionics at San Jose to have things checked out.  LAC Avionics had done their magic on my previous Mooney's autopilot, a KFC 200, and I knew they had all the bench equipment to thoroughly diagnose the problem.  Initially the pitch servo was suspect, but it checked out fine, as did the KAP150 itself.  This left the AI as being the potential culprit.  Their bench test showed that the AI was not spinning up to full speed, and the voltages (AC-amplitude) were erratic in pitch, and that the noise it was emitting was a clear indicator of imminent failure.   Now the dilemma: Have the existing AI rebuilt, substitute an already rebuilt AI, or consider switching to an Aspen?  The existing HSI was working perfectly, and so the decision was pretty much did i like the Aspen display enough to pay the delta to change units, and recess it into my new panel?  I've flown behind twin 7" glass panels (Dynon SkyView) in my LSA, for over two years, and in all candor, I still watched the steam gauge airspeed indicator when landing.  This particular LSA, a DOVA, has a double tapered laminar flow wing, flush rivited, a T tail out of the propeller slipstream, and relatively short gear.  Nailing the perfect airspeed is absolutely critical in landing this very light, slippery aircraft, and trying to read a tape, as opposed to just glancing at the angle of the "back-up" airspeed indicator, took concentration that could better be used in keeping the airplane on the runway. If anyone on this forum thinks landing a Mooney is difficult, (and I love the way I can land my Mooney), they should try a DOVA in any sort of strong wind. Reading altitude tapes was never a problem.  I liked the long horizon of the Dynon glass panels, as I do the G1000s, and G600s. Then there is the matter of Garmin not playing nice with Aspen.  I have a GTN 750, a GTN 650, and an Aera 796, all Garmin, and I don't want to get caught up in a cross manufacturer compatibility game. I therefore opted to have an overhauled Mid Continent AI installed, and had it calibrated to optimize the entire chain of AI, Servo, and autopilot.  A test flight revealed that the airplane no longer bobs, and tracks approaches perfectly, or at least better than I usually can.  A word about Garmin/Jeppesen subscriptions: What a pain, and what an expense!  My subscriptions run around $1,000 per year, and I can never get a straight answer as to just what I have, and have not. I dutifully update my SD cards (no more proprietary cards and readers), but all this takes time (and an internet connection).  Anyway, I am happy for the folk who like Aspen, and know there is no single "best" choice in avionics.  I also acknowledge that my panel will be be outdated in the next few years, but it sure is fun to play with my current toys, and remember when an ADF, as opposed to an RDF, was a big deal, and a remarkable breakthrough in ease of use. 

[Marauder]

Yep, sorting this stuff out is fun isn't it?! I believe the Garmin Lite Pilot Pak may be just the Nav data.

 

Marauder, I found the Jepp subscription for just the Nav data for around $470. Then since you mentioned the Pilotpak, I found that later after poking around a bit ($784). The Garmin Pilotpak is configurable to some extent (Lite, Standard). The standard which is what I have is $862. They include all panel GPSs if I read their webpage correctly with one subscription. They don't include the portables. Too bad.

 

https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/pilotpak/

[Marauder]

Back to Aspen in a minute.  I am beginning to think that participating in these forums causes contagion to our aircraft.  A couple of weeks ago there was some discussion about King / Allied / Honeywell KAP autopilots "bobbing in pitch". Well, my KAP 150 had run perfectly for the two and a half years I have owned my current Mooney, but about a week ago I noticed the onset of a pitch bobbing - about 30 cycles per minute. Dang, she caught the disease.  I flew her to LAC Avionics at San Jose to have things checked out.  LAC Avionics had done their magic on my previous Mooney's autopilot, a KFC 200, and I knew they had all the bench equipment to thoroughly diagnose the problem.  Initially the pitch servo was suspect, but it checked out fine, as did the KAP150 itself.  This left the AI as being the potential culprit.  Their bench test showed that the AI was not spinning up to full speed, and the voltages (AC-amplitude) were erratic in pitch, and that the noise it was emitting was a clear indicator of imminent failure.  

Funny how that works isn't it?! I find the same stuff happening eveytime as well.

 

Now the dilemma: Have the existing AI rebuilt, substitute an already rebuilt AI, or consider switching to an Aspen? The existing HSI was working perfectly, and so the decision was pretty much did i like the Aspen display enough to pay the delta to change units, and recess it into my new panel? I've flown behind twin 7" glass panels (Dynon SkyView) in my LSA, for over two years, and in all candor, I still watched the steam gauge airspeed indicator when landing. 

I am finally starting to break the habit with the steam gauges. There something about looking at them which is comforting. Covering them up for a bit has help, but did create a little anxiety...

 

This particular LSA, a DOVA, has a double tapered laminar flow wing, flush rivited, a T tail out of the propeller slipstream, and relatively short gear.  Nailing the perfect airspeed is absolutely critical in landing this very light, slippery aircraft, and trying to read a tape, as opposed to just glancing at the angle of the "back-up" airspeed indicator, took concentration that could better be used in keeping the airplane on the runway. If anyone on this forum thinks landing a Mooney is difficult, (and I love the way I can land my Mooney), they should try a DOVA in any sort of strong wind. Reading altitude tapes was never a problem.  I liked the long horizon of the Dynon glass panels, as I do the G1000s, and G600s.

Then there is the matter of Garmin not playing nice with Aspen.  I have a GTN 750, a GTN 650, and an Aera 796, all Garmin, and I don't want to get caught up in a cross manufacturer compatibility game. I therefore opted to have an overhauled Mid Continent AI installed, and had it calibrated to optimize the entire chain of AI, Servo, and autopilot.  A test flight revealed that the airplane no longer bobs, and tracks approaches perfectly, or at least better that I usually can.  A word about Garmin/Jeppesen subscriptions: What a pain, and what an expense!  My subscriptions run around $1,000 per year, and I can never get a straight answer as to just what I have, and have not. I dutifully update by SD cards (no more proprietary cards and readers), but all this takes time (and an internet connection).  Anyway, I am happy for the folk who like Aspen, and know there is no single "best" choice in avionics.  I also acknowlege that my panel will be be outdated in the next few years, but it sure is fun to play with my current toys, and remember when an ADF, as opposed to an RDF, was a big deal, and a remarkable breakthrough in ease of use. 

 

I hear ya... In all honesty, I could have repaired and stayed with the analog Nav/Coms I had and "survived' the current IFR system like I have for all the years I have been flying it. But as my really old mother once said to me (she is in her 90s') "Son, you can't take it with you!" So with that in mind, I plan on leaving none of it!

 

I remembered the day I found an antennae for the non-working LORAN that was in the plane when I bought it. I thought I had become an astronaut with all that "high tech". Or the first time I experience a GPS moving map with my 95XL. Little did I know that all of this would evolve into what it is today.

 

I'm enjoying it, but it sure is expensive!

[PTK]

I was told by a reputable avionics shop, that Aspen actually puts a heater in the PFD to stabilize the barometric transducer.

Wow! Everybody else strives to cool avionics, but Aspen heats them?!! If true, seems like very bad engineering. Could explain the sudden Aspen pfd failures.

Looks very nice by the way Peter. Great job!

[peter]

Modern air data computers typically employ a heater in the circuit design to stabilize the sensing element and provide accurate outputs over the very broad temperature ranges over which the equipment must operate. Nothing surprising there.

[carusoam]

Aspens seem to be selling well Peter. Including being installed into older Mooneys. (Tougher/tighter market than newer Mooneys)

I would not have expected things to be so widely accepted.

Congrats on the job well done!

Best regards,

-a-

[fantom]

Ditto on the well done, Peter! Please disregard our resident village idiot's rude ignorance.

[PTK]

Modern air data computers typically employ a heater in the circuit design to stabilize the sensing element and provide accurate outputs over the very broad temperature ranges over which the equipment must operate. Nothing surprising there.

What explains the overheating issues which have plagued the Aspen?

One example quoting an unfortunate owner:

"Early unit had overheat problem. Mod fixed that. Second unit failed when an internal component overheated and the unit switched to internal battery. Unable to remove power. Unit got VERY hot and overheat condition did not stop until the internal battery died. Not a fun time."

[Marauder]

If I am not mistaken the early generation Aspens did not have the small cooling fan on the back (at least that was what I was told by a couple of avionics shops when I was collecting quotes). They run warm as do the Garmin G500/600 series I saw in a display case running with an avionics cooling fan attached to the box. Not sure how warm is "too warm" but I will be using my IR thermometer to take some readings as we go into the Spring and Summer months.

[Bennett]

For what it is worth, the Garmin 796 runs quite warm to the touch. Don Kaye went through a few of them, and reported on the touch screen warmth at the Mooney Homecoming two years ago. I have my 796 installed in an AirGizmos panel mount which is designed to add an avionics cooling fan. I had my installer add the fan, and I do not notice any particular warmth touching its screen. To be fair, my glare shield is somewhat deeper than most, and the Bay Area is not known for ambient high temperatures.

[rob]

I have had no problems out of my Aspen in Mississippi or Kansas, both harsh and hot summers. I have, however, had some problems with my 430 in the same airplane and environment. So take that for what it's worth....