My search has narrowed... M20J MSE

[NewHeights]

So I've been looking at so many different mooneys in the past couple months,  and I think I'm finally narrowing my search down to M20J MSE models.   I'm a new pilot,  so M20C/E/F/J make the most sense,  and with reliability high on my list,  I'm probably in best shape if I buy the newest M20J I can afford.   That has me narrowing my focus on the 90s models of M20J MSE.   

Also,   the range,  useful load,  speed,  all meet my mission profile fairly well.  

I am taking a trip down to Texas this weekend to talk to David McGee at All American Aircraft about a few of the planes they have for sale.   They all have their ups and downs of course.   Here are a few of their listings:

 

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20J-MSE/1995-MOONEY-M20J-MSE/1147270.htm

(This one looks like they are priced way too high,   hoping for someone to fall in love with paint and interior maybe?)

$195k with dual 430s, new paint/interior,  also 0 SMOH,   1250 TT

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http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20J-MSE/1997-MOONEY-M20J-MSE/1152971.htm

(Still priced too high...)

$185k with 196 SMOH,  1336 TT

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http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20J-MSE/1994-MOONEY-M20J-MSE/1144732.htm

 

$172k with    1926 TT,   0 SMOH

 

 

 

I'm also looking at another plane while I'm in the San Antonio area,   for sale by an owner.   Can anyone give their opinions on this one?  

 

http://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?id=128292&listingType=true&IsInternal=True&dealerid=

(I thought price was high considering TT 2100 and 1050 SMOH.   525 hrs on a 3 blade  McCauley scimitar.    I thought this may be an advantage for me since I may occasionally want to takeoff from high altitude airports.    Owner claims it increased climb AND cruise,  is that possible?)

 

 

There are a few others I've called about,  but I'll leave this thread at this.    Any comments on the above planes?   Any other recommendations I should consider in my search for a reliable M20J MSE?

 

Chris

 

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

I'll look at these planes when I'm not going crosseyed in the morning.  It's been a long day.

When are you coming down?  I'd be more than happy to show you my M20J if it's out of the avionics shop.  Should be out on Friday.

[Jeff_S]

Having just completed my shopping with the purchase of my J last month, I had also looked at all three of those birds at All American. I've heard nothing but good things about All American in general, and I did talk to them briefly, but I also felt their planes were priced slightly higher than I wanted to pay and frankly not as well equipped as others that are for sale by owner in similar price ranges.

I hadn't seen that fourth one you listed, on ASO, and of the four it would be my first choice to look at. I also know there were a couple of very nice J's in Colorado--one in Pueblo and one in Durango--that were on my short list if necessary. They were both on Controller at one point...not sure if they're still there or not.

How you value and decide on what to buy will be a personal decision based on your criteria. For me, I put an emphasis on having a solid avionics stack because I wanted to step right into some more serious IFR flying. As a new pilot, you may not need that right away so you could focus more on airframe and engine condition and then add avionics as your needs change. It's really going to be a personal decision.

[NewHeights]

A big reason for my purchase is to have my own plane to receive my IFR rating.  

 

My instructor advised me to rack up a hundred hours or so of flying before going into that rating.   I'm basically looking at all those hours,   plus the hours that will go directly into the IFR rating,  and I feel the right choice is to do it in an owned plane.

 

That being said,  I've tried my best to educate myself on all of the avionics options on the market.

 

At a minimum,   I am hoping a plane will be IFR current,  WAAS current,  with at least a 430.   Better options would be those with dual 430s,  or 530/430 stack.    Better yet than that,  would be a Garmin 480 with MX20.   I didn't spend much time learning anything about the King stuff,  and unfortunately,   its what most of the planes I'm looking at came with.   I guess the reason I have no interest in the King stuff is that it seems so common for people to change that stuff out for Garmins,  so I'm assuming its no good.  

I'd like the plane I buy to be well enough equipped as is,  rather than be spending money to add avionics.  However,   I do think that as long as it is IFR / WAAS current,  that I can get anything I need otherwise from a yoke mounted 496,  or custom panel mounted 696.   The 696 features just look awesome,   and I'm surprised noone on this board seems to talk about it.

 

Chris

 

[Jeff_S]

Sounds like you've got a good handle on the analysis. King definitely lost their mojo to Garmin for all the core avionics, although they're trying to make a comeback with their new PFD. Time will tell on that one. And yes, if you're shopping for a plane that has good avionics already installed, you want at least a G430W or other WAAS equipped device (of which your only two other options are the G530W or the GNS480). King A/Ps are still pretty standard in most Js, and they get high marks overall although if you need to do repairs on the attitude indicator it will set you back several AUs. (In case you hadn't heard that term, an Aviation Unit is a cool thousand bucks.)

As to the 696, I personally think it's too large for a Mooney cockpit. I was looking at an MSE in Georgia that had a 696 installed, and the only place he could put it was on the right-side yoke. I thought it would be awkward to make any effective use of it over there (but would give my wife something to do for sure!). And while the features of the 696 are good, they are not groundbreaking and come at a very high price...both for the device itself and even moreso for the database updates. 

If you're looking for a backup, check out the Flight Cheetah from TrueFlight: http://www.aviationsafety.com. I had one of those in my Warrior and loved it. My J has the 480/MX-20 combo so for now I'm going to see if I can get used to that and make it work, but I do miss the completely independent backup of the Flight Cheetah.

[Ned Gravel]

I do not know too much about 696s and their installation in a Mooney cockpit, but a relatively well known instructor by the name of Don Kaye swears by his.  He has posted photos of his control yoke mount on http://www.donkaye.com/Dons_Homepage/Garmin_696_Photos.html. 

[NewHeights]

Well,   I came out to look at all the planes listed above.   I'm going to go with the Red 1996 MSE,  the last link I posted (the one on ASO).

Purchasing for the asking price,   $170k.   I think its a fair deal.   The plane is in great shape,   hope all goes well at the pre-buy.   

I'd like to publicly thank Parker for all his help,   both in talking to me about these planes on the phone,  and recommending how I will handle the purchase from this point forward (inspections and delivery).  

 

[carusoam]

NewHeights,

I like your reasoning...

Wow, that panel has left no stone unturned. 

I am sure Parker covered the details, I am curious, could you share what the story is behind the mismatched timing of: OH, Top, and New Prop?     I recommend, at least be aware and be comfortable with the reasoning yourself.

The initial set-up usually can go 2,000hrs.  This one went about 1,000 prior to FRM, then a follow-up replacement of cylinders, then a new prop.

Wishing you good luck completing your purchase and best regards,

- Anthony -