F Model at All American

[Mcstealth]

Asking you guys with experience, about AA's F model.

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20F-EXEC-21/1968-MOONEY-M20F-EXEC-21/1253903.htm?dlr=1&pcid=17527

What do you say about it, please.

Sincerely

David

[1964-M20E]

Nice looking plane. If it is in your budget, the pre-buy goes good and it meets your mission the go for it. At 70k it is still a 68 F model. The rajy and the new style inst panel along with the 430 make it. I'd try to get it for 60 to 65k.

[Seth]

I agree with John. Also, though the RayJay system is installed, and that is looked at as a bonus, many have issues and you have to make sure yours, of this aircraft's, is in good shape and well maintained. When they are set up and working right, they are a fantastic addtion to the airframe. More power up high. The useful load on the F is hard to beat.

The F is a great plane - but that is pricy for an F. As John said, the panel, 430, rayjay, paint and interior make the plane. Also, there are a lot of F mods (fairings, cowl closure) Low to mid time engine and pretty new Top Prop with no AD issues. I'm curious what cruise speed numbers are - you should at least call All American and ask about this aircraft. It has been there a while - or it was somewhere else as I looked at this from a distnace when I decided to upgrade from my own F model in summer 2011.

This is a turnkey aircraft. Find out about damage history as well as autopilot. I did not see one listed but there were two nav modes on the DG and that makes me think something may be linked.

Good luck.

$69,900 may actually be fair for this aicraft, but I'd still find out about wiggle room - that is a nice F.

-Seth

[KSMooniac]

It has a lot going for it IMO, and isn't priced crazy-high. The TN system adds a LOT to it, and would be nearly impossible to add to any other plane today. Parts are still available for it too, so I don't think you would need to worry about keeping it going. Good instrument panel with a normal layout, Hartzell Top Prop, low engine hours.... all good things on my list. I'm not a fan of the paint job, but that is an individual thing and correctable if you want to spend the money.

[M20F]

Hi I bought my M20F with a Rayjay TN from All American in June of last year and was very pleased with the experience, price, and the airplane. Each of us has to chose what is value to us but I can say that Jimmy/Dave accurately represented the plane the sold me and went above and beyond keeping their word during the pre-buy which cost them about $11K. I am busy dumping money into upgrades because for my type of flying this is the perfect plane and after I sink about $80K into it will really be the perfect plane, but if I were to buy another plane it would be through Jimmy/Dave no question.

[Mcstealth]

No auto pilot is a negative to me, for a plane of this capability. It would take what, $15,0000 plus?

[jetdriven]

`

[DaV8or]

Great airplane! I'd go for it. Ray Jay, lots of good mods, top prop, good times on engine and airframe, manual gear, good looking pain job IMO and 430W. Downsides are lack of auto pilot and your secondary nav com is door jam, or paper weight waiting to happen. The HSI makes up for it though. Also dated transponder and audio/intercomm, but perfectly serviceable. Very reputable seller too! Send it over to one of the very good near by MSCs and get a great pre buy. I would try for a lower price of course, but if they won't budge on the price, I don't think I'd sweat it too much and go for it anyways. It's a rare combo of desireable mods.

[carusoam]

Respectfully ask what happened to the owner...

He seems to have left behind a nicely upgraded and renewed F.

Maybe he moved on to a M20K or Bravo

David, Are you close enough to AAA? If you are, go see it and other F, J, Ks... (your TX has fallen off your address...)

For the most part, Jimmy and David get to represent and sell the nicer half of what's available...

The price is high for an F, but that is an above ordinary F....

Best regards,

-a-

[Mcstealth]

I have viewed the plane, as it is close to me. I am working the figures, the likes and dislikes. For the money, I will look at other F's and older J's.

Wish it had an auto pilot.

DF

[DaV8or]

I have viewed the plane, as it is close to me. I am working the figures, the likes and dislikes. For the money, I will look at other F's and older J's.

Wish it had an auto pilot.

DF

What's wrong with the plane? Bad logs? Bad history? Is it really just the lack of A/P?

[Mcstealth]

I have seen it. It is close to me. Plane is clean. Couple of nit-pick issues of the personal nature, that is all.

There are F's out there with 430's, comparable times, etc, no turbo obviously, for considerably less money. There are J's of lesser quality, for the same money....... Ah, justification. Don't you love it.

Yes I want an AP.

David

[DaV8or]

A/P is nice. I get that, but seriously have a hard look at the turbo. You will want it eventually. I wish I had it. Add an autopilot- $15,000 and easy to do. Add a turbo if you can get one- $40,000 and a big project.

[KSMooniac]

If you are patient and have good scrounging ability, you might be able to come up with an older Brittain or Century system to install into the plane for modest money. Some of the newer STEC's have sold recently (even here) on the used market and Cobham is now "only* charging $1400 for an STC transfer. You could potentially get a system for well under $10k IMO.

Dave is correct...adding a turbo is a big deal and not realistically financially feasible for an E or F these days, unfortunately.

[rbridges]

I'm not seeing the plane on the controller link. Did it sell?

[KSMooniac]

still works for me.

[Mcstealth]

Yes the plane is nice. No it doesn't have a gee-whiz interior but it is completely functional. Paint, same thing, functional. No it doesn't have an AP. No right side brakes. No one piece belly. No 201 windscreen. JUST SAYING! :) I crawled under it, around it, in it. Going to set an appt to look at the logs.

David

[FloridaMan]

Not having the 201 glass actually has some advantages. For one, if you need to get behind the panel it'll be a lot easier.

[DaV8or]

Yes the plane is nice. No it doesn't have a gee-whiz interior but it is completely functional. Paint, same thing, functional. No it doesn't have an AP. No right side brakes. No one piece belly. No 201 windscreen. JUST SAYING! :) I crawled under it, around it, in it. Going to set an appt to look at the logs.

David

Thing is, the brakes (lots of Mooneys don't have right side brakes) and the 201 windshield can easily be added. The turbo, not so much.

[SkyPilot]

Thing is, the brakes (lots of Mooneys don't have right side brakes) and the 201 windshield can easily be added. The turbo, not so much.

Really? I never noticed I'll have to check now. Isn't that kinda weird only having brakes on one side? You guys pulling my leg?

[Hank]

Nope. Two front seats, two sunvisors, two yokes, two sets of rudder pedals, but only I can make us stop on the runway.

Why'd they do it that way? I dunno--cheaper, lighter, easier, less prone to leak? Do right brakes need their own master cylinder, or does everything run off the one down below my left knee?

But I don't care, I've only sat in my right seat one time, and that was before she was mine, 490 hours ago.

[chrisk]

If you want a turbo Mooney, why not go for a M20K? There are plenty that are nice and within 10K of asking price.

[N601RX]

Nope. Two front seats, two sunvisors, two yokes, two sets of rudder pedals, but only I can make us stop on the runway.

Why'd they do it that way? I dunno--cheaper, lighter, easier, less prone to leak? Do right brakes need their own master cylinder, or does everything run off the one down below my left knee?

But I don't care, I've only sat in my right seat one time, and that was before she was mine, 490 hours ago.

Yes you have to add another pair of master cylinders, and replace the current copilot pedals and linkages. The brackets are already welded on at the factory so mounting the master cylinders is easy. Routing and forming the brake lines is another matter. I used the factory drawings and found the parts on E-bay.

[KSMooniac]

Mooneys were typically marketed as personal and business transportation machines, not as trainers, which is why there is typically only one set of brakes. The second set just adds cost, weight, and more places to introduce failure so they were only added as an option, and I suspect for 95%+ of the fleet this works just fine.

[fantom]

The second set just adds cost, weight, and more places to introduce failure so they were only added as an option....

Absolutely correct. I know because I have them. They haven't been an issue for me, except when a non compos mentis passenger is along who doesn't understand that they're not a foot rest.