Remove Before Flight Poll

[FlyingDude]

26 minutes ago, Jackk said:

Or they should buy a lotto ticket

I think they're just meticulous. Not lucky.

[MikeOH]

Just now, FlyingDude said:

I think they're just meticulous. Not lucky.

Or, have poor memories.

[FlyingDude]

Just now, MikeOH said:

Or, have poor memories.

Or, we should all strive to be like them.

I wish I was half as good a them. 

[MikeOH]

Just now, FlyingDude said:

Or, we should all strive to be like them.

I wish I was half as good a them. 

Striving for perfection is admirable; claiming it, well, not so much.

[FlyingDude]

1 minute ago, MikeOH said:

Striving for perfection is admirable; claiming it, well, not so much.

What if it's the truth? I find fake modesty as unpleasant as boasting.

Some people (not me) are perfectionist and they really do score that high...

 

[takair]

We should strive for perfection.  I think this poll shows it is hard the achieve.  Designers also strive for perfection, but the regulations and design standards recognize human and machine fallibility.  I think this poll also shows that there are some nice redundancies built into our machines and checklists.  Miss a pitot cover on walk around, hopefully we see it on takeoff roll.  Miss it there and training takes over…we hope.  Miss a gust lock on preflight, hopefully catch it on the control sweep.  This one gets tougher if you get airborne, so it’s important to not let errors stack up. There is a risk when we add modifications and our own protective measures without thinking failure modes.  I’ve seen a number of well intentioned safety devices or design ideas that end up being more hazardous than the one they intend to prevent.  
 

Let’s all have a happy and safe Thanksgiving.  Try not to rush, try to check things twice.  Strive for that perfect flight.  In the words of Rob Holland, Fly Good, Don’t Suck.

[Jackk]

32 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

What if it's the truth? I find fake modesty as unpleasant as boasting.

Some people (not me) are perfectionist and they really do score that high...

 

 It’s not impossible for that to be the truth between both of your high time friends, but it’s HIGHLY improbable 

[N201MKTurbo]

Anybody who says they have never made a mistake has delusions of grandeur. 
 

The more you fly the more opportunity you have for mistakes.

Most people don’t make the same mistakes twice. But this isn’t absolute. 
 

So, the more you fly, the more mistakes you make, and you hopefully won’t make again.

Thats why the airlines want you to have a bunch of hours before they will hire you. They want you to make most of your mistakes before you get there.

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, FlyingDude said:

Some people (not me) are perfectionist and they really do score that high...

Sorry, no way I believe there are perfect pilots.

23 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Anybody who says they have never made a mistake has delusions of grandeur.

Exactly!

[FlyingDude]

9 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Anybody who says they have never made a mistake has delusions of grandeur. 

I thought we were talking about simple items that are on every checklist, which we are actually supposed to use.  I didn't know that we were talking about "any" mistake in general, which is a very broad topic.

Big mistakes, like forgetting to drop the gear or misinterpreting a wx chart and ending up in marginal wx beyond one's capabilities, can and do happen even to the best. However the items on this survey are simple things, all of which covered by checklists. Missing them is sloppiness. The remedy is using checklists. Not making generalist moral statements about human infallibility and modesty against grandeur, or assuming that mediocrity is normal. 

I try to use my checklists. I witnessed people take off with pitot covers on,  fuel caps off and one guy was merrily taxiing a Cessna172 with the tow bar on and we called him on the radio. Those sights scared me and burnt into my mind. I strive to not make those mistakes. 

However I did miss stuff, which I caught later before taking off, but still they upset me.  They happened when we flew as a family because young kids can be distracting. So I taught my wife the preflight checks and she helps me not be sloppy. She loves to point out everything I miss and is very thorough. 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

18 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

I thought we were talking about simple items that are on every checklist, which we are actually supposed to use.  I didn't know that we were talking about "any" mistake in general, which is a very broad topic.

Big mistakes, like forgetting to drop the gear or misinterpreting a wx chart and ending up in marginal wx beyond one's capabilities, can and do happen even to the best. However the items on this survey are simple things, all of which covered by checklists. Missing them is sloppiness. The remedy is using checklists. Not making generalist moral statements about human infallibility and modesty against grandeur, or assuming that mediocrity is normal. 

I try to use my checklists. I witnessed people take off with pitot covers on,  fuel caps off and one guy was merrily taxiing a Cessna172 with the tow bar on and we called him on the radio. Those sights scared me and burnt into my mind. I strive to not make those mistakes. 

However I did miss stuff, which I caught later before taking off, but still they upset me.  They happened when we flew as a family because young kids can be distracting. So I taught my wife the preflight checks and she helps me not be sloppy. She loves to point out everything I miss and is very thorough. 

 

Ok, do you carry your preflight checklist with you when you preflight your plane?

Does your checklist have items for each individual chock or tie down? Or does it have just “remove wheel chocks” and “remove tie downs”? 
 

Do you just read through the preflight checklist after you are sitting in the pilots seat? If so, it could ask if you removed the chocks and you removed the mains, but forgot the nose, or one of the mains. Your brain remembers removing chocks, but you did only two of the three because you were distracted. 
 

For me, I have taken off about 5500 times and forgot a chock or tie down about 5 times. That is an error rate of 0.09% That ain’t bad.

[N201MKTurbo]

I just checked my logbook about the last time I did it. I’m good for the next 750 hours. I probably won’t make it that far, so statistically, I’m bulletproof! 

[FlyingDude]

I split my preflight as blocks, fluids and walkaround. For blocks, I first remove tie downs and chocks. I have 2 chocks and if I haven't removed the 2nd one, I put the only one on the walkway so that's a reminder. Then I remove pitot cover. I set it on the walkway or in my pocket where it bothers my leg: so I know where it's at. Then I remove any heater stuff and the blanket. Then I do fluids: oil, gas (level and sample), and tires. Cup and dipstick only go back in the bag after I'm done. Otherwise they sit on the walkway. When I remove the towbar, I take a picture of it in the baggage compartment. Before cranking I think of the towbar and sometimes I look at the picture for the exact reason you said: in case I got confused with the last time.  After the "blocks and fluids", I do the walkaround. I go over the checklist before cranking. So far I only forgot to close the oil dipstick cover because my kids decided to start WW3 over a tablet and I got distracted. I saw it flap open after cranking, so I closed it before takeoff. 

Not perfect but addresses my personal shortcomings. The leave the stuff on walkway helps me with starting but not finishing tasks...

YMMV 

[Ibra]

Taxi and takeoff with parking break ON in C172, I noticed right  before landing doing checks (after 1h of flight). I checked my takeoff roll log on iPad, it was slightly longer: the parking break is not that effective, everyone happy 

The one thing I forget often before flight is....going to pee 

 

Edited November 26, 2025 by Ibra

[FlyingDude]

30 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

5500 times

I'm at 2600 landings. Plenty of opportunities ahead of me to surpass you by far 

[Jackk]

So far 9,152 landings according to my log.

 

 Never anything crazy but I’ve forgotten stuff, left sunglasses in planes, had a student forget a gas cap on a 2 seater early on in the CFI days, thank god for the little chain and me sitting in the back lol

 

 I’ve caught a good bit of stuff too, one thing I will say about being a CFI is it quickly tightens you up on some areas that help you throughout your career, especially later on with new FOs.

 

 Was with a buddy of mine who stone cold sober and in the middle of the day drove his car off with the gas nozzle still in it,  they are actually made to break away because that happens, Indian gas station guy wasn’t too happy, my friend is now at a legacy. 
 

Stuff happens, “failures” happen, just fail forward

Edited November 26, 2025 by Jackk

[EricJ]

51 minutes ago, Ibra said:

Taxi and takeoff with parking break ON in C172, I noticed right  before landing doing checks (after 1h of flight). I checked my takeoff roll log on iPad, it was slightly longer: the parking break is not that effective, everyone happy 

The one thing I forget often before flight is....going to pee 

 

The parking brake in my Mooney is useless, so I never bother with it.   I've taken off with the parking brake on in the C182s, though.   That's pretty easy to do, especially if you're used to it not being a factor at all.

 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Does your checklist have items for each individual chock or tie down? Or does it have just “remove wheel chocks” and “remove tie downs”? 

This is the beginning of the Pre-Flight Inspections in my Owners Manual, which I copied and keep on my kneeboard. There's a similar section for the right wing.

But no, I no longer carry it with me. I've owned my Mooney for 18 years now, most of the checklists are in my head, but also on my kneeboard for reference. 

[Justin Schmidt]

4 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

Or, we should all strive to be like them.

I wish I was half as good a them. 

Or need a toilet because someone is full of shit.

Never met a soul on this planet that hasn't made a mistake...more specifically in their field of expertise. 

[201er]

37 minutes ago, Hank said:

This is the beginning of the Pre-Flight Inspections in my Owners Manual, which I copied and keep on my kneeboard. There's a similar section for the right wing.

This may actually be the crux of the problem. If wheel chocks even make the checklist, it’s usually the preflight inspection checklist and not the before start checklist. After stopping for lunch, dropping a friend off, or getting fuel, nobody is going to go and perform an entire preflight all over again.

Furthermore, in some conditions such as wind or incline, pilots may elect to leave the chocks in during preflight and then forget them later.

I bet forgetting wheel chocks or even most of the remove before flight items is more rare at home base than when traveling. Might need yet another poll 

Edited November 26, 2025 by 201er

[201er]

Let’s talk more specifically about chocks here

 

[Ibra]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

That's pretty easy to do, especially if you're used to it not being a factor at all.

Indeed, now I try to get into habit of using checklists on types that I don’t fly that often, at least on first flight after a while.

Same, I never touched Mooney parking break (I probably did but I don’t remember when ).

Edited November 26, 2025 by Ibra

[Jackk]

46 minutes ago, Hank said:

This is the beginning of the Pre-Flight Inspections in my Owners Manual, which I copied and keep on my kneeboard. There's a similar section for the right wing.

But no, I no longer carry it with me. I've owned my Mooney for 18 years now, most of the checklists are in my head, but also on my kneeboard for reference. 

 Problem with the super thick like a yellow pages checklists is just don’t get used or followed as much.

 

Checklist is like a resume, shouldn’t be over one page.

 

[Pinecone]

On 11/23/2025 at 4:15 PM, EricJ said:

I always tell people to put the rope between the cowl plugs around the front of one of the prop blades.   This way if you do forget it, it'll fling the whole thing down the ramp, like yours, which is way better than taking off with them still in.

I was doing this while talking to the FBO owner.  He started laughing.  Then he told me about a guy who did that way, started up and tossed the plugs across the ramp.  Made the guy mad, ranting and raving.  So he stopped putting them on that way.

Yeap, a few week later he cooked and engine taking off the plugs still in the cowl.

[FlyingDude]

3 hours ago, 201er said:

After stopping for lunch, dropping a friend off, or getting fuel, nobody is going to go and perform an entire preflight all over again.

How long does your preflight take anyway? 5 minutes, 15 minutes? I spend the most time on the "fluids" item per my checklist (fuel level and sample, oil level, tire inflation). The rest runs swiftly. I personally check these fluid items every time I leave the plane out of my sight. What if they need to put A1 in a plane whose tail number approximates yours, as in with the same numbers in which only 2 consecutive ones are swapped, so they fuel yours with A1 while you're flirting with the desk girls at the FBO? Too risky.