Headset GA plugs or A/C powered

[PeterRus]

What's the conventional wisdom here? I have Bose and GA plugs in my Mooney, and I have A20 w/ GA plugs. Getting a second headset, A30, and I am thinking if Bose connector has any advantage other than being a/c powered. Any advice? 

[Danb]

Depends if your flying in other planes, I have Bose connections but bring a set of light speed with regular plugs when flying in others plane 

[AJ88V]

The GA plugs are certainly easier to sell if you ever part with your headset, but I do think the LEMO plugs are a great idea for cockpit cleanliness and getting away from batteries.  I'd have gone for that if my plane already had LEMOs installed.

[A64Pilot]

I bought my Maule years ago, it came with the original Bose headset and had a “box” installed in the panel that the single plug plugged into providing comms and power.

Soon one ear stopped working, called Bose to see about getting it repaired, they said they don’t support it I would have to buy the new model, I asked well will you give me a trade-in or a little off? Bose said no. I asked well will the new model plug into the box mounted in the panel? Bose said no. I asked well will the new box fit the same hole in the panel? Bose said no. Ended up making a cover plate to cover the hole. Threw the Bose in the trash, which was a shame because it was the best working Bose made as it was a decent passive set with noise cancelling, newer models don’t have much if any passive attenuation.

Last Bose I ever bought. I do have an A10 that I inherited I think it is, stored it for a few years, bought about the same time as my Zulu. Started flying again, both headsets needed new plugs etc as the rubber had deteriorated, called Bose, Bose said we don’t support that you’ll have to buy the new model, same song and dance about trade in etc.. Called Zulu and they said sure, for xx dollars we will rebuild it and upgrade it to the new model, which they did, but did so, so well that it just might be a whole new one, I’m not sure.

Which one do you think was the better buy?

Batteries are just too cheap and easy to carry spares plus my headsets will work in almost all other aircraft because of the standard plugs.

 

Edited December 10 by A64Pilot

[PeterRus]

7 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Which one do you think was the better buy?

Batteries are just too cheap and easy to carry spares plus my headsets will work in almost all other aircraft because of the standard plugs.

Bose, of course! (because they can afford treating customers like that)

There are two options: 

(a) A30 w/ GA plugs + $300 swappable Bose LEMO connector

(b) A30 w/ LEMO conn + $30 LEMO-GA plugs adapter

Could someone confirm that A30 w/ LEMO also has batteries as back up?

[201Mooniac]

I love using the LEMO plug but it is slightly fragile if constantly plugged/unplugged and less interchangeable in other aircraft.  I've had the same LEMO plugs in my plane since the original Bose headset so I'm not sure what was with the "box" previously mentioned.  My wife and I have had the original Bose, the X, and the A20 and we've loved using them all for these 28 years or so.  I do agree the newer ones have much less passive noise cancellation but they are the most comfortable for me and have the best performance of any headset I've tried.  The A20 has a backup battery but I'm not certain about the A30.

[dkkim73]

My new plane has LEMO plugs. I had a modified DC 10-13.4 originally, but caved and bought a DC One-XP earlier this year so I could more easily call for clearances with my cell phone.  Like it very much! One less separate box/dongle. I bought a LEMO adapter (https://www.sportys.com/lemo-to-ga-headset-adapter-1.html) for $40, which allows me to use it in other planes (infrequent) or to plug in a mask.*

I think this hybrid solution optimizes for my use-case (LEMO most of the time). 

HTH
D

*Note some folks have luck plugging a mask mic in parallel, for me the gains and squelch were different and it didn't work well. 

 

 

[Schllc]

23 minutes ago, PeterRus said:

Bose, of course! (because they can afford treating customers like that)

There are two options: 

(a) A30 w/ GA plugs + $300 swappable Bose LEMO connector

(b) A30 w/ LEMO conn + $30 LEMO-GA plugs adapter

Could someone confirm that A30 w/ LEMO also has batteries as back up?

The newer headsets, specifically the a30’s take batteries and can be used with an adapter in any plane. 
I prefer not having to worry about batteries, but noise cancelling headsets are a second choice to clarity aloft. They don’t require batteries and I find them much more comfortable.
that being said,  I am in the smaller minority, most seem to prefer the noise cancelling headsets. I do like the Bose a30’s, but prefer the clarity aloft. 

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, 201Mooniac said:

I love using the LEMO plug but it is slightly fragile if constantly plugged/unplugged and less interchangeable in other aircraft.  I've had the same LEMO plugs in my plane since the original Bose headset so I'm not sure what was with the "box" previously mentioned.  My wife and I have had the original Bose, the X, and the A20 and we've loved using them all for these 28 years or so.  I do agree the newer ones have much less passive noise cancellation but they are the most comfortable for me and have the best performance of any headset I've tried.  The A20 has a backup battery but I'm not certain about the A30.

The first Bose aviation headset was a heavy clunky thing with clear sections that you could see the electronics in, it had clear gel filled cushions, not black. Don’t know the model, that was maybe 20 years ago?

The box was of course the first lemo type connector and the power supply. Not big about the size of an old fashioned match box.

Heavy thing but comfortable, and it was a decent passive headset with ANR. It was in my opinion superior to what they sell now.

There are several things I don’t like about Bose but primarily it’s that they don’t protect your hearing, the reason is because ANR at least Bose anyway only works from about 40 Hz to 300 Hz or so, yes that cuts out most of the annoying drone from our aircraft, but it’s not the frequencies that cause damage.

Don’t believe me, I’m just some anonymous guy on the internet, look it up yourself.

If you want to protect hearing you need to block primarily high freq’s, thats probably best done with a good passive headset, then add in ANR and you have a headset that knocks out the fatiguing drone, and protects your hearing.

Bose quickly abandoned that for I think a couple of reasons, both marketing based. First for lightweight, but also if your headset doesn’t block much if any noise with the ANR off it’s magic when it’s turned on, I’m sure we have all been to a Bose booth where they are playing the low freq drone and you turn the headset on and off to experience the magic.

But also largely because way back in the 70’s I have been an Audiophile, and Bose has always been in truth pretty poor speakers, using processing etc to give what seems like good sound, but it’s not, if you can set up an A+B switch to good speakers so you can switch back and forth you will hear how much is missing, then take a good look at many if not most of their Auto systems where they quote huge power numbers, but what they don’t tell you is that their speakers are 2 Ohm, not 4 or 8.

[Ragsf15e]

All these Bose headsets and their Lemo connections are repairable, just not by Bose.  If you have a problem, send them to Terry Gerber at KC headsets and they come back like new.  He works on other brands as well.  Real good customer service.  Old school skills on that kind of stuff.  I too like the Bose X with lemo.  I never had any issues with the connection but it does feel like you should be careful with it.

To be fair to Bose, I had a mic fail on a set of A20s in my work airplane.  They were ~6 years old.  Bose asked the serial number and then told me they would warranty it.  Paid for shipping and everything.  Came back with new cushions even.

[LANCECASPER]

Air Gizmos has repair kits for Bose X headsets. https://www.airgizmos.com/XA10-Headset-Repair-Kit_p_84.html

Also wiring repair kits: https://www.airgizmos.com/Headset-Wiring-Repair-Kit_p_89.html

Edited December 11 by LANCECASPER

[Pinecone]

I have LEMO and GA in for the front seats in my Mooney.  I have a LEMO to GA adapter for other airplanes, but typically my DC One-XP headsets just stay in the Mooney.   I have a couple of passive David Clarks for my CAP-10 and other aircraft.   And one passive stereo DC for a back seat passenger in the Mooney.

The rear seats are wired for GA only, but stereo.

[AJ88V]

Despite many claims that they suck, I am pretty amazed by the new Bose A30 headset.  The classic pre-J model Mooneys are as noisy as they come, but I am blown away by how quiet my new Bose headset is.  Of course, I'm comparing to antique Lightspeed 20K and 25K models (shows how long they held up), plus a pretty good passive Telex with gel seals I keep for backseaters.

Have a new Lightspeed Zulu 3 headset on order for the GF.  That's a tier below the Lightspeed Delta Zulu and the Bose A20 or A30, but generally regarded as a very fine headset and currently on sale for $799 (order direct from Lightspeed for free shipping and no state t@x).  Expect a detailed comparison between the A30s and the Z3s in a month or so.

Also.

13 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

All these Bose headsets and their Lemo connections are repairable, just not by Bose.  If you have a problem, send them to Terry Gerber at KC headsets and they come back like new.  He works on other brands as well.  Real good customer service.  Old school skills on that kind of stuff.  I too like the Bose X with lemo.  I never had any issues with the connection but it does feel like you should be careful with it.

To be fair to Bose, I had a mic fail on a set of A20s in my work airplane.  They were ~6 years old.  Bose asked the serial number and then told me they would warranty it.  Paid for shipping and everything.  Came back with new cushions even.

 

9 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

Air Gizmos has repair kits for Bose X headsets. https://www.airgizmos.com/XA10-Headset-Repair-Kit_p_84.html

Also wiring repair kits: https://www.airgizmos.com/Headset-Wiring-Repair-Kit_p_89.html

Thanks to both @Ragsf15e and @LANCECASPER for these very helpful posts!  Things like this really help others rescue older but excellent  hardware from the trashbin. 

[GeeBee]

I know not what others may say but as for me, give me LEMO or give me death!

[LANCECASPER]

On any airplane I've ever owned where the interior was out for upgrades I made sure that all four passengers had lemo plugs (in addition to the standard plugs) - very reasonable upgrade while everything is out.

[802flyer]

If you have the LEMO headset, you can benefit from the convenience of panel power whenever it is available, but still easily connect it to a GA Plug plane with the $40 adapter referenced above.

If you buy the GA plug headset, you’re stuck with GA plugs and batteries in every plane.

I don’t see a reason not to buy the LEMO headset and GA adapter if you regularly fly in a plane with LEMOs.


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[dkkim73]

15 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

...

There are several things I don’t like about Bose but primarily it’s that they don’t protect your hearing, the reason is because ANR at least Bose anyway only works from about 40 Hz to 300 Hz or so, yes that cuts out most of the annoying drone from our aircraft, but it’s not the frequencies that cause damage.

Don’t believe me, I’m just some anonymous guy on the internet, look it up yourself.

If you want to protect hearing you need to block primarily high freq’s, thats probably best done with a good passive headset, then add in ANR and you have a headset that knocks out the fatiguing drone, and protects your hearing.

...

^this

Also the reason I passed on the A20 and A30 after looking carefully. I think passive attenuation is needed for good hearing protection. Adding active allows you to have better SNR in information-bearing ranges and also better perceived quietness. 

In fact, back when I was younger and trying to maintain hearing able to pass an initial FC-IA exam, I would wear plugs under my DC headset (a tip from a flight instructor but it immediately made sense). Also in a much higher-noise jet environment I would aways do this (blind foamie or channeled plugs under my helmet... at least until we got the AXES in-ear units). 

Same for shooting. 
Belt and suspenders. 

Re: the mention of the Zulu 3, I looked at it *after* reading some questionable reviews on the DZ and was very impressed. The build and comfort are great. I thought the DC One X-P was lighter and slightly better intelligibility, but they're both awesome. On the list to get my wife a Zulu 3. Also looking to trial Clarity Aloft given Ray's and other's good reviews. 

D

 

[AJ88V]

Succumbing to thread creep....... It would be great if somebody could post up a chart comparing noise cancellation figures (passive and combined active/passive cancellation) for current headsets.  This used to be a standard of marketing, but I couldn't find such a comparison for the current generation of .  FWIW, most PNR headsets are in the 24 - 26dB range.

@A64Pilot's observations about frequency response of attenuation are interesting.  I can't find anything on this (please post back), but may be an important data point.  I'd think the high frequency noise would be a much bigger issue for jet/turboprop aircraft than piston singles, and it seems Bose A30 seems very popular with the professional jet jockey crowd. My subjective experience is that the passive attenuation of the Bose A30s is on par with my antique Lightspeed 25s, but the ANR is much better.  Furthermore, both ANR headsets make it able to hear high frequency noises, like keys jingling on climb out.  In the case of the Bose, I can hear this with astounding clarity.

[EricJ]

4 hours ago, AJ88V said:

Have a new Lightspeed Zulu 3 headset on order for the GF.  That's a tier below the Lightspeed Delta Zulu and the Bose A20 or A30, but generally regarded as a very fine headset and currently on sale for $799 (order direct from Lightspeed for free shipping and no state t@x). 

The Zulu 3 is, imho, superior to the Delta Zulu.    I've had a Zulu 3 for many years and it's been aweseome, and bought a Delta Zulu not long after they came out, thinking it'd be an upgrade.   It is not.   I prefer the Zulu 3.     The Delta Zulu just adds features like CO detection, a zombie voice that randomly tells you about the battery charge level when you're trying to hear a clearance, and, only if you have an iPhone and the Lightspeed app, some control of the equalizer which is evidently advantageous for those with hearing impairment.   I'm an Android user, and the marketing just said you'd need "the app", and not that it was Apple-only.   The headset does not appear to be better in any way than the Zulu 3 other than the added features, which I do not need or use.

Edit:  Actually I do use one feature of the DZ.   It comes with a rechargeable battery pack that I leave plugged into a USB port in the airplane.   It's nice to not have to deal with the batteries, (so far).   The bot voice telling you about the charge level is semi-annoying, though.

Also, ANR is different from ANC (automatic noise cancelling) in that it leaves some of the spectrum uncancelled so that you still have situational awareness of what is happening around you.   True ANC headsets are amazing, and pretty much completely separate you from the ambient noise, which is not good in an airplane that you're flying, especially with a reciprocating engine.

[PT20J]

Numbers can be misleading because noise is so subjective; everybody’s hearing and sensitivity to noise is different and nonlinear.

I have a Zulu 3 and a Bose A20. I used them both in a float Beaver I used to fly which makes a Mooney seem quiet by comparison. The Bose was slightly quieter. In my M20J, I cannot tell much difference. I usually use the Zulu because I find it slightly more comfortable to wear for long periods. Either one is a good choice.

I haven’t tried an A30, but the technology has got to be reaching the point of diminishing returns to justify the higher price since the previous generation works so well. 

[A64Pilot]

Roughly I’d guess about 8,000 of my hours are in noisy turbines, AH-64’s and Crop Dusters, Crop Dusters are loud as they have zero insulation, it’s all sheetmetal with a hole in the floor, that way you can hose it out every so often like old work trucks, and of course any Military helicopter is loud, but an AH-64 has an engine intake behind each shoulder and the intake is where the high freq comes from, and the transmission right behind your back.

What works best is take a good passive system and add ANR, that gives you the best of both worlds. Attached photo is three of my helmets, one SPH-4B and two HGU-56P’s all three have ANR kits, one the battery box is on the back of the helmet, which didn’t work out as well as I hoped, the other two the box is between the two plugs.

Headsets Inc makes the ANR kits, have them install them or install them yourself. https://www.headsetsinc.com Give them a call, they have been doing this for a long time and they can customize most anything.

What Sux is they use 9v batteries that are expensive, to combat that I use rechargeable Li-Po 9V’s that recharge from a USB plug

There is also a Headsets Inc headset, they used to take Peltier headsets and modify them, not sure if the newer ones are still Peltor or not but if not they are a clone, one of the new ones is in the Pic

One good option is to take a good David Clark headset and put an ANR kit in, if you like David Clarks.

If hearing protection is your concern, you’re not getting protection from ANR alone because it doesn’t block the harmful frequencies, but I don’t think our Mooney’s produce high freqs like a turbine can either. The low frequency drone that they do produce is fatiguing over time but probably not all that harmful, but a good passive set with ANR gives the most noise reduction as if ANR is faced with lower volume of the freqs it cancels it of course does an even better job, but there just isn’t the major difference between ANR off and on of course because the passive is so good.

If you really, really want to protect your hearing have an Audiologist take a mold of your ear canals and make special tuned ear plugs, that’s what I did in the Military because ANR in my Military IHADDS helmet wasn’t an option then.

 

Edited December 12 by A64Pilot

[A64Pilot]

Oh, and one of my helmets has the Oregon Aero upgrade kits, which are WAY more comfortable, much better cushions, and I think the foam they use in the ear cups absorb even more noise than the stock foam does.

They make their kits for headset too apparently, but I’ve not put a kit on any of my headsets, I guess you have to call and find out which kit fits your headset?

https://www.oregonaero.com/helmet-upgrades/military-aviation-helmet-upgrades#!/~/search/keyword=headset+upgrade+kit

Edited December 12 by A64Pilot

[dkkim73]

2nd @A64Pilot's recommendations for Headsets Inc.'s ANR kit and Oregon Aero ear pads/gel seals. That exact combo is what I refitted my older David Clark with and it is perfect except for the presence of an external battery box and lack of Bluetooth. They do have some newer options which address some of those concerns. 

[Schllc]

For all those interested. Installing a LEMO jack is not difficult or expensive. 
if you are adding them where you have no headphone jacks it can be a lot more difficult. But if you are adding a LEMO where you have jacks, all you need is power. 
I did it myself in the backseats of my last Mooney. Done in less than an hour for $80. 

while batteries are not expensive, needing them can be extremely inconvenient. 
it always seems like they are dead when you are out of batteries.