G100UL is available at Reid Hillview (RHV)

[UteM20F]

https://g100ul.com/news/g100ul-high-octane-unleaded-avgas-at-reid-hillview/

Reportedly, the cost is $6.99/gallon.

 

[Ibra]

Any idea much is Avgas 100LL at the same airport?

[toto]

18 minutes ago, Ibra said:

Any idea much is Avgas 100LL at the same airport?

I think 100LL has been banned at Reid Hillview 

[redbaron1982]

26 minutes ago, Ibra said:

Any idea much is Avgas 100LL at the same airport?

 

It seems they don't have LL...

[redbaron1982]

Commie California is coming after GA

[Ibra]

Any idea on premium between 100LL or G100UL for similar location or airports that sells both? 

It seems G100UL is cheaper than UL94 for start which is very reassuring (after all UL94 = 100LL without TEL = G100UL without INK, one can always argue that any extra additives like lead or aromatics are expensive than the fuel itself )

Edited October 29 by Ibra

[KSMooniac]

yes, no 100LL at KRHV.  Airnav shows $5.37 SS at Tracy (very rural, I believe) up to $11.37 at San Jose, just 5 miles from RHV.  Average within 45 miles is $6.95 for 100LL, so I'd say $6.99 is very competitive.  Time will tell if that is a promo or subsidized price just to get some traffic and try it out, or not.

I'm still hopeful that eventually G100UL will be common, and the price will be lower than 100LL today due to the lack of restrictions on transport and storage without lead.  We'll see.

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, KSMooniac said:

yes, no 100LL at KRHV.  Airnav shows $5.37 SS at Tracy (very rural, I believe) up to $11.37 at San Jose, just 5 miles from RHV.  Average within 45 miles is $6.95 for 100LL, so I'd say $6.99 is very competitive.  Time will tell if that is a promo or subsidized price just to get some traffic and try it out, or not.

I'm still hopeful that eventually G100UL will be common, and the price will be lower than 100LL today due to the lack of restrictions on transport and storage without lead.  We'll see.

I don't buy fuel based on what the average price is!
And, why would I care if Tracy is rural when the fuel is much cheaper?

Less than 20 miles away it's $5.75 at PAO, or $5.49 at MRY.  Fly 50 miles to O15 and it's only $4.95.

In my world, $6.99 is pretty damn far from 'very competitive!'
I hope they don't sell a drop of G100UL at that price.  Heck, let's test how many years they can store the stuff

[KSMooniac]

I'm generally of the same mind as you and frequently buy the minimum required to waive fees at my usual destination, and then stop 25 miles away to tank-up at >$2.00 off per gallon.  In my home area I'll try to go to outlier airports to tank-up on a local exercise flight too,

But in that crazy state, getting fuel at your destination or even home base for an average price when all of the other "close" airports in the populated area are far more expensive is a big improvement.  The based aircraft have been without ANY 100 octane option for a while now, so I expect many of them are happy to buy it at any price, especially "average."  

[Shadrach]

$6.99 is very competitive for the Bay Area. FS at my rural Maryland airport is $7.15 and SS is $6.60.  I tanker up on cheap gas when I encounter it, but want my local FBO to remain strong.  If I lived in San Jose, I would happily buy G100UL at that price.

[Paul Thomas]

How does the FAA view fuel for mapping purposes? How will people react if they expect 100LL and find UL, especially those without the STC?

I wonder if doing away with STC may be in UL's best interest. I hope we get to watch it form afar while things get worked out. Fuel is $4.4x at my home field.

[MikeOH]

40 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

$6.99 is very competitive for the Bay Area

Say what?  I gave several examples of MUCH cheaper fuel in the Bay Area!  Including one $1.24 per gallon less only 16 miles from RHV!

40 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

If I lived in San Jose, I would happily buy G100UL at that price.

I can't imagine why??  I have no issue flying to a nearby airport to save $50 (40 gals X $1.25); I see no reason to waste money.

[Shadrach]

11 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Say what?  I gave several examples of MUCH cheaper fuel in the Bay Area!  Including one $1.24 per gallon less only 16 miles from RHV!

I can't imagine why??  I have no issue flying to a nearby airport to save $50 (40 gals X $1.25); I see no reason to waste money.

Because I value my time as well. Most of my flying recently has been purpose driven. Flying two to three days a week means I don’t need an excuse to get the plane out.  I am not making a special trip for $50, nor would I add a stop to an existing trip for $50.
I like my local FBO and I want to do business with them. I enjoy having local services available.   I had to delay my trip to NC a few Saturdays back because of a leaking line to the fuel pressure gauge.  I had a new line fabricated with my old fittings (local shop), installed (by me) and signed off by an IA at the FBO before 11:00am Monday morning for <$200 total.  I was able to do that because I support and have relationships with the service providers on my field. Shopping all over hell and half acre to save $50 is not a big concern. I might feel differently in my retirement, but that is quite a ways off.

[donkaye]

This is the first I have heard that KRHV has the G100UL.  No lead is supposed to mean a cleaner engine that implies better longevity.  I would consider using it even if it cost more just for the engine benefit alone.  Does anyone know how the fueler knows whether you have bought the STC from Gami or, if they check, can you get it from them?  Or do you have to contact GAMI to buy it?

OTOH, right now Reid Hillview is an absolute mess, as is it undergoing a massive improvement process.  For a small airport, if you are not based there, just getting to the runway involves a clearance as long as one for a cross country.  Even thought I asked them to read it slowly, the Controllers there just rattle it off so fast that I finally just told them that I wanted "Progressive" to the runway.

I am base at San Jose, 5 miles from Reid Hillview, and the fuel price is higher than at Signature in San Diego, a Class B airport,  by a significant amount.  I haven't bought fuel there in years.

[GeeBee]

The dam has burst. 

There is a lawsuit settlement between some eco groups and the FBO's in CA that says they have to sell unleaded when it is "commercially available". Until now the FBO Association has said that is not the case, but with the RHV delivery that will be a hard sell in a motion before a judge. G100UL will be rolling into CA literally by the truck loads.

Once CA rolls, the whole obstruction program to G100UL aka "EAGLE" will collapse quickly or they will suddenly discover their leading candidate fuel "works just fine" Hang onto to your hat, the roller coaster just hit the apex.

[skykrawler]

Wonder how much it costs to tanker the fuel from Louisiana to San Jose?   Wag:  .25 gallon

And don't forget to add the $1 per gallon surcharge to the first 500 gallons to amortize the STC.

The notion that unleaded fuel will be result in substantial savings on engine maintenance is laughable.

 

[Shadrach]

11 hours ago, Paul Thomas said:

How does the FAA view fuel for mapping purposes? How will people react if they expect 100LL and find UL, especially those without the STC?

I wonder if doing away with STC may be in UL's best interest. I hope we get to watch it form afar while things get worked out. Fuel is $4.4x at my home field.

There needs to be a method of approval. 

[redbaron1982]

6 hours ago, donkaye said:

No lead is supposed to mean a cleaner engine that implies better longevity.  I would consider using it even if it cost more just for the engine benefit alone.

Also opens the possibility to use more modern, synthetic oils, AFAIK.

My main concern is about monopoly... if by an EPA determination, LL is banned, and we only have G100UL we are not going to be in a good position.

[Pinecone]

16 hours ago, Ibra said:

Any idea on premium between 100LL or G100UL for similar location or airports that sells both? 

It seems G100UL is cheaper than UL94 for start which is very reassuring (after all UL94 = 100LL without TEL = G100UL without INK, one can always argue that any extra additives like lead or aromatics are expensive than the fuel itself )

The quoted price at the refinery for G100UL is $1 per gallon more than 100LL.

I suspect that this load may be more expensive than normal. Especially f they sent a tanker truck from LA to RHV.  Most times it would go by rail to CA, then to trucks for the shorter haul from the rail terminal.

Last I talked to someone in the know, the hold up was arranging for a rail head to park the railcars while filling the trucks and delivering.

[Pinecone]

12 hours ago, Shadrach said:

$6.99 is very competitive for the Bay Area. FS at my rural Maryland airport is $7.15 and SS is $6.60.  I tanker up on cheap gas when I encounter it, but want my local FBO to remain strong.  If I lived in San Jose, I would happily buy G100UL at that price.

At my, smaller than your airport, MD location, the fuel is $5.95 SS, $6.35 FS.

[Pinecone]

7 hours ago, donkaye said:

Does anyone know how the fueler knows whether you have bought the STC from Gami or, if they check, can you get it from them?  Or do you have to contact GAMI to buy it?

It is unlikely that the fueler will care.  Proper grade of fuel is up to the PIC.

But GAMI supplies stickers that go by the filler caps.

 

[Pinecone]

47 minutes ago, redbaron1982 said:

Also opens the possibility to use more modern, synthetic oils, AFAIK.

My main concern is about monopoly... if by an EPA determination, LL is banned, and we only have G100UL we are not going to be in a good position.

Lycoming already has a Service Instruction that allows you to double the oil change interval up to 100 hours with UL fuel.

Plugs should also last longer.  Less chance of sticking valves.  Lots of good things.

[Pinecone]

1 hour ago, redbaron1982 said:

My main concern is about monopoly... if by an EPA determination, LL is banned, and we only have G100UL we are not going to be in a good position.

Actually G100UL opens up the possibility of MORE competition.  GAMI does not make and sell fuel.  They license the formula and right to make it.  Since there is no handling of TEL, ANY refinery can make G100UL.  Heck, you would get a license and a big blending tank and make it yourself.

No need for dedicated blending and piping.  No dedicated trucks.

AVGAS already has a higher profit margin than MOGAS, so other refineries are likely to start making it.

[Shadrach]

23 hours ago, skykrawler said:

Wonder how much it costs to tanker the fuel from Louisiana to San Jose?   Wag:  .25 gallon

And don't forget to add the $1 per gallon surcharge to the first 500 gallons to amortize the STC.

The notion that unleaded fuel will be result in substantial savings on engine maintenance is laughable.

Laughable? 

https://www.lycoming.com/publications/service-letter-no-270

Eliminating lead removes the barriers to modern synthetic oils.  It will be a while before that happens, but it will. 

Doing away with the thick, toxic, grey film that accumulates on the belly is nearly to worth it. Being able to have my little ones help clean the belly would be worth it. 

I have been tested and I know that I have detectable lead levels in my system that are above average but still in the "safe range".  In my youth I was careless with my handling of 100LL and aircraft parts that had been exposed to lead.   I think the threat of lead to the general public from 100LL is way overstated.  The real threat is to pilots, maintenance professionals and passengers that fail to take precautions or engage in risky behavior.  

[Shadrach]

53 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

At my, smaller than your airport, MD location, the fuel is $5.95 SS, $6.35 FS.

Winchester, VA is closer and and cheaper...SS $5.47 FS $5.87.