Garmin G5 Battery Failure

[gwav8or]

I purchased my G5s last May and had them installed in November.  Picked up the plane in late December.  So, I have 9 months and probably 30+ hours behind the G5s.  I took my wife up on Sunday evening and the AI was displaying the "No Batt" annunciator in the top left of the G5 AI.  I powered off the G5 and back on, same.  I'm guessing the battery has already took a dive.

I'm gonna try to fly this evening, hoping it was just a fluke but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Anybody else have a G5 battery die after only a few months?  I'm not excited about paying almost $300 for a battery that might fail in less than a year.

Please no "shoulda went with "xyz" avionics instead.  I've already got the Garmin stuff installed.  Now, if someone wants to donate the $$ I'll install whatever you decide! roflol

[Greg Ellis]

This may have nothing to do with nothing but back in 2022 Garmin issued a service bulletin for the G5 saying that if the G5 was not powered up for an extended period of time, the battery would drain to 0%.  They also published a list of serial numbers affected by this Service Bulletin and their website shows this list recently being updated as of yesterday so I wonder if you somehow have a unit that falls under this old SB.  Just a thought.

(2022) Service Bulletin 22013 Rev A: G5 Backup Battery Discharge | Garmin Customer Support

 

[Pinecone]

Hmm, isn't the warranty 2 years?

No matter, I would call Garmin.

[gwav8or]

3 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Hmm, isn't the warranty 2 years?

No matter, I would call Garmin.

Unfortunately Garmin doesn't warranty batteries.  Says so right on their site.  I think that stinks, especially for a $260 battery.

[gwav8or]

7 minutes ago, Greg Ellis said:

This may have nothing to do with nothing but back in 2022 Garmin issued a service bulletin for the G5 saying that if the G5 was not powered up for an extended period of time, the battery would drain to 0%.  They also published a list of serial numbers affected by this Service Bulletin and their website shows this list recently being updated as of yesterday so I wonder if you somehow have a unit that falls under this old SB.  Just a thought.

(2022) Service Bulletin 22013 Rev A: G5 Backup Battery Discharge | Garmin Customer Support

 

Thanks, I'll check on that.

[dzeleski]

11 minutes ago, gwav8or said:

Unfortunately Garmin doesn't warranty batteries.  Says so right on their site.  I think that stinks, especially for a $260 battery.

Not always true. Contact your dealer and ask them to contact Garmin, you may also want to pop an SD card in and collect some logs as well. Make sure you are on the latest G5 software as well because it does a better job of notifying if there is a battery issue.

That being said my battery was replaced under warranty because I had a G5 of the effected serials. There is a known issue with the G5s where if you power them up and power them down too quickly they dont fully turn off. You can tell the difference by very carefully looking at the screen, when its still partially on the screen has a green hue to it (but blank) and when its off its completely black. Basically make sure you leave the G5s running for at least until the Navigator self test comes up, click enter/proceed and then power everything off.

[gwav8or]

2 minutes ago, dzeleski said:

Not always true. Contact your dealer and ask them to contact Garmin, you may also want to pop an SD card in and collect some logs as well. Make sure you are on the latest G5 software as well because it does a better job of notifying if there is a battery issue.

That being said my battery was replaced under warranty because I had a G5 of the effected serials. There is a known issue with the G5s where if you power them up and power them down too quickly they dont fully turn off. You can tell the difference by very carefully looking at the screen, when its still partially on the screen has a green hue to it (but blank) and when its off its completely black. Basically make sure you leave the G5s running for at least until the Navigator self test comes up, click enter/proceed and then power everything off.

Yeah, I contacted them yesterday and they said that they've tried warranty replacement with several G5 batteries and they've not been successful with the warranty.  But, I'm gonna check the G5 this evening and see if it's in the affected units.  Fingers crossed.

[dzeleski]

4 minutes ago, gwav8or said:

Yeah, I contacted them yesterday and they said that they've tried warranty replacement with several G5 batteries and they've not been successful with the warranty.  But, I'm gonna check the G5 this evening and see if it's in the affected units.  Fingers crossed.

You could also try the old take it off and put it back on deal. They are easy to remove, might be worth a try. I would personally call Garmin at that point and ask how they expect a battery to go bad within 9 months on a brand new install.

Its completely possible it was old stock sitting on the shelf. Best of luck!

Edited September 17 by dzeleski

[gwav8or]

3 minutes ago, dzeleski said:

You could also try the old take it off and put it back on deal. They are easy to remove, might be worth a try. I would personally call Garmin at that point and ask how they expect a battery to go bad within 9 months on a brand new install.

Its completely possible it was old stock sitting on the shelf. Best of luck!

Agree!  Thanks!

[EricJ]

You'd probably have gotten low batt warnings if the battery failed rather than No Batt, which sounds like it maybe became disconnected or is loose.    As mentioned, they're easy to remove/replace, so that's worth trying.

[MikeOH]

And, nearly 7 years into ownership my vacuum driven DG and AI soldier on without any issues...

[201Steve]

Once the battery is fully depleted, it kills itself. Cannot recharge it. At least not through the G5’s software. Once it detects zero it won’t even try to charge it. 
 

I’ve gone through 3 units and 5 batteries. Some I paid for and some were covered. Mine in particular I now believe is an installation error bc it’s the only common among all the replacement units. Garmin cannot explain it but I think if I were to have it re wired my problem would go away. 
 

I have 2 G5’s only the attitude location is affected. 
 

my problem has been if you leave it idle for too long, there is an internal draw on the backup battery, it kills the battery, and then there’s nothing you can do except change the battery. 
 

I have learned to deal with it, for now. It takes about a month to totally die. I have to pull circuit breakers if it’s going to sit longer than a month. 
 

yrmv 

[Ragsf15e]

Jeez, I have older G5s, maybe 4.5 years old?  The batteries have been great the whole time.  No issues and they pass the ica easily with close to 4 hours remaining.  

[hammdo]

Mine are 3 years and so far a-ok too…

-Don

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, 201Steve said:

Once the battery is fully depleted, it kills itself. Cannot recharge it. At least not through the G5’s software. Once it detects zero it won’t even try to charge it. 
 

I’ve gone through 3 units and 5 batteries. Some I paid for and some were covered. Mine in particular I now believe is an installation error bc it’s the only common among all the replacement units. Garmin cannot explain it but I think if I were to have it re wired my problem would go away. 
 

I have 2 G5’s only the attitude location is affected. 
 

my problem has been if you leave it idle for too long, there is an internal draw on the backup battery, it kills the battery, and then there’s nothing you can do except change the battery. 
 

I have learned to deal with it, for now. It takes about a month to totally die. I have to pull circuit breakers if it’s going to sit longer than a month. 
 

yrmv 

Trek told me that it took awhile to figure out what the problem was because there was a particular component internal to the G5 that some from a certain lot had excessive current draw when powered down. Not all units had the problem. When they finally figured it out, the service bulletin @Greg Ellis posted was issued. 

But since the problem was internal, I'm curious what circuit breakers you could pull that would prevent it. Maybe something else is going on?

Mine was installed in October 2021 and percent charge still shows in the nineties even after sitting a few weeks.

[201Steve]

@PT20J I talked to Trek as well. No help. I had the unit exchanged under that SB and even the new one they sent me still was defective. It makes no sense, bc the only think commanding the unit to use it’s own battery, ought to be the internal unit itself. Any wire connections going into it should have nothing to do with that but alas here I am. 
 

and to clarify, I haven’t done it enough times to say without margin of error that pulling circuit breakers helps. I always walk away from the plane assuming I’ll be flying it in the next couple days but you know how idle time goes. You don’t necessarily plan it. I need to just pull them every time to really test the theory. 
 

in theory, pull BOTH units (top and bottom) CB, AND the gad 29. Apparently the gad29 should have its own circuit breaker but mine does not and I’m not exactly sure which breaker it lives on. In my anecdotal trials, I’ve pulled everything nav related. It seemed to work but hard to say without a few good long weeks with the right CBs pulled. 

[EricJ]

5 hours ago, MikeOH said:

And, nearly 7 years into ownership my vacuum driven DG and AI soldier on without any issues...

Your time is coming. 

 

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, EricJ said:

Your time is coming. 

 

No doubt.  Then I'm looking at, what, $500 for a new Rapco pump, or an instrument OH?  Meanwhile I don't have to deal with weird battery discharge efforts, or annual ICA tests, $290 batteries, warranty fights, or any BSD possibilities; I'll survive just fine, thanks

[gwav8or]

16 hours ago, 201Steve said:

Once the battery is fully depleted, it kills itself. Cannot recharge it. At least not through the G5’s software. Once it detects zero it won’t even try to charge it. 
 

I’ve gone through 3 units and 5 batteries. Some I paid for and some were covered. Mine in particular I now believe is an installation error bc it’s the only common among all the replacement units. Garmin cannot explain it but I think if I were to have it re wired my problem would go away. 
 

I have 2 G5’s only the attitude location is affected. 
 

my problem has been if you leave it idle for too long, there is an internal draw on the backup battery, it kills the battery, and then there’s nothing you can do except change the battery. 
 

I have learned to deal with it, for now. It takes about a month to totally die. I have to pull circuit breakers if it’s going to sit longer than a month. 
 

yrmv 

Mine  is  the AI as well.  Hope I don't have an install error.....  My plane hasn't sat for more than a couple weeks without flying  but my typical flight is  only 1-1.5 hours.  Wonder if that's enough to charge the backup battery fully?

[Pinecone]

10 hours ago, MikeOH said:

No doubt.  Then I'm looking at, what, $500 for a new Rapco pump, or an instrument OH?  Meanwhile I don't have to deal with weird battery discharge efforts, or annual ICA tests, $290 batteries, warranty fights, or any BSD possibilities; I'll survive just fine, thanks

No, you just have to possibly deal with the AI slowly dying while IMC and having you flying into a graveyard spiral.

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

No, you just have to possibly deal with the AI slowly dying while IMC and having you flying into a graveyard spiral.

I was trained to use a scan of all my instruments to cross check their validity for just that reason.  Perhaps you should have your CFI-I cover that technique with you

[Pinecone]

3 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

I was trained to use a scan of all my instruments to cross check their validity for just that reason.  Perhaps you should have your CFI-I cover that technique with you

Yes, and mishap reports show that people follow the AI as it leans over, even while cross checking.

There are pluses and minuses to each panel.

[MikeOH]

2 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Yes, and mishap reports show that people follow the AI as it leans over, even while cross checking.

There are pluses and minuses to each panel.

Like everything, there are trade-offs.  IMHO 'glass panels' are expensive with many more failure modes, and NOT the panacea that many believe them to be. As far as 'mishaps' I'm curious how the report writers know what people did or did not do since those situations don't typically end up with live interviewees!  In my logical analysis someone that follows the AI when 'cross checking' isn't cross checking!  Training, practice, and consistent procedures matter...'glass' seems to be commonly touted as 'safer'... I sure hope the implication isn't that it's safer since you can 'get away with' poor technique!

[201Steve]

There’s a reason new airplanes aren’t built with vacuum AI’s. I prefer to have the best option available. It seems to me the industry has spoken. 

[Pinecone]

From people who ALMOST crashed.  

No, glass is not the be all to end all.  But it offers a lot of advantages to steam gauges.  If steam gauges were better, airliners and military aircraft would use them.  Now, only the older aircraft have them