Landing question

[Alan Maurer]

Mooney People,

I have noticed a tendency on rollout to feel a tug to the left and small swerve. I have been thinking I just don't have the rudder trim set correctly. 

Does that make any sense??

Thanks

Alan

M20R

[N201MKTurbo]

Your nose gear is warn out. I would put the oversized bushing in the steering pivot and shim your steering horn.

But don’t worry, it will get worse very slowly. You can fly it like that for a long time. It will eventually start to shimmy on landing. When it does that kick the rudder, it will stop the shimmy. When it gets that bad, you should think about fixing it.

[MikeOH]

https://web.archive.org/web/20190207032823/http://donmaxwell.com/the-eight-second-ride-sb-m20-202/

 

[buddy]

Check the position of your rudder trim on final and you’ll find that you will have to add more right rudder trim than you think.

[Alan Maurer]

hello Everyone...Thanks for the notes

Alan

[Yetti]

15 hours ago, Alan Maurer said:

hello Everyone...Thanks for the notes

Alan

Without trim, Mooney's seem to need a bit of right rudder most of the time, depending on crosswind.     Try holding the nose off a bit longer, some people tend to let the nose drop too fast on landing.

[Shadrach]

On 8/26/2024 at 7:45 AM, buddy said:

Check the position of your rudder trim on final and you’ll find that you will have to add more right rudder trim than you think.

I don't have much experience with the heavier birds. Given that I don't have rudder trim (just roll), why would you trim for anything but neutral on final? Would it not be better to be managing the rudder with your feet rather than a trim servo?

[buddy]

49 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

I don't have much experience with the heavier birds. Given that I don't have rudder trim (just roll), why would you trim for anything but neutral on final? Would it not be better to be managing the rudder with your feet rather than a trim servo?

In my “R” it seems I need to set my rudder trim left of center when in cruise, I don’t know about the others. I set my rudder trim right of center when on final and works well especially if you always plan for a go around you’re not going to need a tremendous amount of right rudder when things get busy.

[natdm]

On 8/26/2024 at 12:13 AM, N201MKTurbo said:

Your nose gear is warn out. I would put the oversized bushing in the steering pivot and shim your steering horn.

But don’t worry, it will get worse very slowly. You can fly it like that for a long time. It will eventually start to shimmy on landing. When it does that kick the rudder, it will stop the shimmy. When it gets that bad, you should think about fixing it.

@N201MKTurbo is this what you mean? I've got Eric at Oasis repairing what he can of that next week. He said all Mooneys get bad but mine is 20x as bad as the next. The steering horn was just replaced by a Lasar one, so it's not that. He showed me it's the oversized bushings that are needed. Until then, "kicking the rudder" will fix it?

[N201MKTurbo]

That motion may or may not be a problem. It depends where it is moving. If that slop is in the pivot bushing, you have a problem. If it is just extending the overcenter link, it is normal. A better check of the bushing would be side to side play and up and down play.

[natdm]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

That motion may or may not be a problem. It depends where it is moving. If that slop is in the pivot bushing, you have a problem. If it is just extending the overcenter link, it is normal. A better check of the bushing would be side to side play and up and down play.

I should have also taken a video of that, but I've been told by Eric that he needs the oversized bushing from Lasar, so my guess is it's the pivot bushing. I saw the part, I just can't find a diagram to point to what it was.

He said he should be able to "patch" it a bit in a week, but the parts on backorder from Lasar and he might be able to get it by next annual (almost a year).

[Alan Maurer]

Mooney People, Lots of great notes about oversize bushings, steering horns and steering pivots.Can someone actually explain what these things are or maybe a photo?

I just fly the plane (M20R) and never work on it. Sarasota Avionics does that. 

Thanks

Alan

[Pinecone]

FYI, if you get the oversized bushings.  Measure them before you take everything apart.  There have been cases of the package saying oversized, but the bushings were the standard ones.

[natdm]

14 hours ago, Alan Maurer said:

Mooney People, Lots of great notes about oversize bushings, steering horns and steering pivots.Can someone actually explain what these things are or maybe a photo?

I just fly the plane (M20R) and never work on it. Sarasota Avionics does that. 

Thanks

Alan

The best place to start is to have a good relationship with your mechanic, and ask the questions and note the answers. When I have an annual done, I have my mechanic thoroughly point out any work he wants to do, and why. The "I never work on it" thing is fine, but the "I just fly the plane" thing is probably not. You want to be able to fly the plane and know why certain things are the way they are. 

I'm nowhere near a mechanic, not even close, so you'd be better off with someone like Rich to help. So take all this with some caution because I'm not much more knowledgeable than you, I'm just starting..

But the steering horn can be seen here on page 109 and here at Lasar. . This is for an M20J but I believe most of the mid/long bodies are pretty similar. I was told parts of the steering horn tend to go bad or get bent after a while but it only affects steering, and was told to not worry about it. That said, I had complained about mine for 3 years before the mechanic finally commented that it was pretty bad. After my mechanic in AZ replaced that, Oasis Aero commented that I need oversized bushings and I believe, from what I saw, that's for the Support Truss Assembly in the diagram at the bottom of this page. 

I'm told all Mooneys tend to go bad with these parts and they need overhauled in time. Bad landings exacerbate the situation. I'm under no illusion that me buying the plane with 120 hours under my belt, and these two things going bad, are unrelated.

[A64Pilot]

On 8/26/2024 at 1:00 AM, Alan Maurer said:

Mooney People,

I have noticed a tendency on rollout to feel a tug to the left and small swerve. I have been thinking I just don't have the rudder trim set correctly. 

Does that make any sense??

Thanks

Alan

M20R

I land on the mains, and carry the nose about as long as it will, then slowly lower it.

My J model does the same as yours, that is small jerk and a small dart to the left, a little right rudder just before it touches down stops that from occurring, small as in its more just a little pressure as opposed to actual movement.

Mine may be worn, but I’d suspect wear to show up as a shimmy and not a consistent pull to one side, zero wind it’s always to the left and does not occur on grass, just pavement.

My theory is either the nose wheel is ever so slightly mis rigged, or neutral is a very slight right rudder which at low power settings may center the ball where at zero power and very low air speeds actually be a tiny bit of left rudder.

‘It’s just one of those things I’ve chosen to not try to fix