Move to a smaller airport

[haymak3r]

Hey everybody, 

So I am in sort of a conundrum. I am currently at a pretty nice towered airport, with great ILS/GPS approaches, and all that goes along with that. The problem is airport management, and the drive from my house to there. They don't really want hangers where mine currently is, as they want to build out a new terminal in the near future. Within the next 10 years I believe.

I was just given an opportunity to move my plane to a small untowered airport that is a 1/3rd of the distance that I have to travel now to go fly. The problem is it is a shared hanger, there are no instrument approaches, and no weather reporting. The runway is fairly short at 2700', but hasn't been an issue. The shared hanger is also 50 bucks more a month. Not a huge deal, but a factor none the less. I am torn here and was curious what the community's experience with this sort of situation.

 

Do I go for the move? And deal with not having accurate weather, potentially not getting back in to the airport while on an IFR plan? Potential hanger rash with the addition of another person(s) having access to the hanger? The next airport closest to me has one VOR approach. Today it is overcast at 1300'.. the MEA near the potential new home is 4000'. I do not know what the MVA is though, yet... But, I don't believe I would be able to get in to the new airport if I were needing to land right now. (things will definitely get better as the day goes on of course. Just using this as an example.)

I am torn. Do I move for the convenience, and subsequent more frequent flying? Or do I not make the move and keep all the facilities that I have been used to for the last few years. 

Thanks all!

Pic for reference. It's also pretty dang tight with two planes in the new hanger. I have until the end of the month to make the decision.

-Chris

[DCarlton]

No instrument approaches?  Seems like a waste for an IFR pilot and a Mooney.  If you were flying an RV, or building a kit with your hangar buddies, might be great.  Just my two cents since you asked.   

[haymak3r]

I agree, and that is why this is so hard for me. I hate having to drive an hour one way to go fly. less than 15 minutes sure would be nice. Buttttttt, the lack of resources to me is going to make it hard coming back home more often than not, unless the weather is good vfr. And the valley get's socked in with the marine layer a lot..

[dkkim73]

Would they let you rent the closer one for a few months and try it out? Ie. keep both and see what the utility is. $50/month is very reasonable, seems even more so for OR, at least the wet side. 

 

Probably would help to see: 

-how it "feels" to have it closer; do you fly more? 

-how often you have to divert due to wx

Long shot, but you could also see if anyone's done any work to survey for approaches. Someone here probably knows more about how big a thrash (or wait) that could be. 

D

 

[Hank]

I used to fly an approach into a nearby Class D, and after breaking out, go home VFR.

Now where I'm based, we have GPS approaches both directions. 

I've found that fuel is more important, having spent several years flying off to fuel up, or making a very short first leg on a trip. 

[Greg Ellis]

Have you asked these same questions to the person/people that would share the hangar with you?  Are they instrument rated as well and find it difficult not being able to get back often?  Maybe see how they manage the same issues that you would be facing.

[Skates97]

3 hours ago, haymak3r said:

I am torn. Do I move for the convenience, and subsequent more frequent flying?

The question is if it would be more frequent flying without a way out/in when it is cloudy. I like @Greg Ellis's suggestion to ask your potential hangar mates what their experience has been dealing with no approaches.

I'm not sure the process and how long it takes but you could also try to get RNAV approaches built. I have a good friend that keeps his plane at Bear Lake County (1U7) up in Idaho and they recently got RNAV approaches to two runways.

[wombat]

I would not call that hangar 'tight' with two planes.    Check out my hangar.

 

Driving an hour to go fly seems crazy.  I lament the 15 minute drive I have.    For me the nearest instrument approach is an hour drive away and there is no way I'd ever consider keeping a plane there instead of near home.

Maybe take a look at historical weather and see how often the conditions are below the MVA, and if so, how long they are below.    It might be faster to just wait out the weather in a hold or at another airport than to do an instrument approach and drive an hour.

[Pinecone]

2 hours ago, Skates97 said:

I'm not sure the process and how long it takes but you could also try to get RNAV approaches built. I have a good friend that keeps his plane at Bear Lake County (1U7) up in Idaho and they recently got RNAV approaches to two runways.

My local airport has a RNAV B approach that has been there for 20+ years.  Since then they changed the main runway, much longer, and applied for a RNAV straight in.

It was approved in 2022.  It was supposed to be active summer 2023. Now is not supposed to become active until summer 2025

[The Other Red Baron]

I used to live about 5 minutes away from our airport.  It was wonderful.  Now I'm 25 minutes away from the airport and it does make it harder to drag myself down there sometimes.  I'd move for the convenience.

[DCarlton]

On 6/10/2024 at 10:46 AM, haymak3r said:

I agree, and that is why this is so hard for me. I hate having to drive an hour one way to go fly. less than 15 minutes sure would be nice. Buttttttt, the lack of resources to me is going to make it hard coming back home more often than not, unless the weather is good vfr. And the valley get's socked in with the marine layer a lot..

So again... since you asked.  If I had to drive an hour, I would have probably stopped flying a long time ago; or I'd rent the nearby hangar and start building a VFR kit just for sport flying and just enjoy being associated with aviation in some way.  My airplane is literally five minutes from my house and I'm back and forth often; especially when any maintenance is being done.  If only I had a hangar... I could live the dream.  

[hammdo]

I’m going to take a different view point - I drove an hour each way and lived with it. My situation was different. I recovered from heart failure and had to go through the SI process. Once I got my 3rd Class medical, I couldn’t wait to fly solo again. I pretty much fly every week as I know how quickly this privilege can disappear.

I now have about a 40 minute drive each way and still find a way to fly weekly.  I do have a nice hanger and even go down sometimes just to clean and look over things.

VFR or IFR doesn’t matter, I fly and I train often too with a CFII/Safety Pilot. Always something to work on. I do WINGS, Pilot Workshop etc. every month. I train with the Garmin PC stimulator too.

I want to fly that much… no more waiting till later, I have a plane and I know how to use it- mostly  ;o)

-Don

[Fly Boomer]

41 minutes ago, hammdo said:

I have a plane and I know how to use it- mostly  ;o)

I like it!

[Jim Peace]

GTN builds a practice ILS to most runways……..practice practice practice. 

[Ibra]

The runway is short, and 45 minutes drive with expensive hangar? this does not sound very  impressive to what you have already? 

If I have 3000ft paved non instrument runway with night lights 5min from home at 50% price, that would get my vote. For weather, we can go ILS circle to land and slide on GPS guidance to join VFR patterns elsewhere

Like anything in aviation, it depends when, where, how...also needs practice and familiarity with wise choice of weather minima with some  dispatch rate tradeoff 

In my homebase, I only go IFR under pattern or vectoring altitudes 1 in 10 flights and down on ILS & LPV minima about 1 flight in 100h flying. Being in IFR airport, is mostly about peace of mind during pplanning or middle of holiday rather than actual use, if one hhs some flexibility, you can get the same utility from nearby VFR airfield 

If you have aircraft 10min nearby in VFR airport, you "will" fly more often on good weather days  if you have it in IFR airport with 2h drive, you "can" fly more often on bad weather days 

Edited June 13, 2024 by Ibra

[Pinecone]

My home field only has a RNAV B approach (CTL) right now.  But within 30 minute drive or so, there are 3 airports with multiple straight in approaches.

[Hank]

43 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

My home field only has a RNAV B approach (CTL) right now.  But within 30 minute drive or so, there are 3 airports with multiple straight in approaches.

Wow, you live in a "target rich environment"! There are zero airports within 30 minutes' drive of my base, and only two within 30 miles of home (I'm based at the closer one, 18 miles away; the other is 27 miles). Stretching to an hour's drive will add three more, including the local Class D with airline service, and a 2nd one a little further in a different direction. 

[Pinecone]

Stretch to an hour and it opens up even more places.

Downside is complicated airspace.

 

[haymak3r]

Thanks everybody! I went and spent 3 hours with my new hanger buddy, and discussed everything I could think of. Being that we are in the willamette valley, things can vary pretty dramatically between airports. Going with the next weather station in Albany, he said probably 10-15% of the time he would look at all the weather material he uses and when he would get to the airport, things would be different. He also has had occasions too where he would get stuck in Albany or even Corvallis due to weather unexpectedly coming in. I live a little further east, and can corroborate what he is saying. We did find a way where we can get each other's planes out without having to move the others plane out of the way, so that issue is solved. Still tighter than I would like, but I could live with it. 

I also went down to my current hanger, and cleaned things up. One other thing that I think should be considered, is security. Eugene is like fort knox lol. Lebanon is not. And they HAVE in recently, had some break-ins around the field. 

I definitely like the idea of keeping both for a month or two, and just fly. I still am leaning with staying in Eugene, but have to exhaust this opportunity first. Plus, I am used to driving to Eugene already. I worked down there before moving to wfh full time, and did all of my training over the past couple years down there. It really comes down to the convenience, and whether saving an additional 25 minutes one way is worth the added cost, and reduced amenities.

 

Thanks again for the great points of views from you all! 

[Danb]

In the event you get stuck I’d land at the other airport and get a ride home, really consider how often that would occur. 

[wombat]

@haymak3r Based on your name, I figured you were in the midwest.  But the Willamette Valley is also fitting for making hay.  My father-in-law flies out of Corvallis so I get down there fairly often.

Yeah, you can get stuck away from home fairly easily there in the winter.     The MVAs are quite low out there and you can get quite low with the approach at Albany or Corvallis and you could fly VFR back. Maybe.  Or maybe not. 

 

Maybe think of it this way...  

Every so often you'll need someone to go pick you up at KEUG, KCVO, or S12... But most of the time you will be able to just land at 'home'....   If you consider every flight as 2 hours of driving, but on *some* flights you need someone to go to one of the other airports to pick you up, you can calculate the average drive time per flight.  A 'normal' flight 'saves' you 90 minutes (45 minutes each way) but a 'bad' flight costs you.  Assuming you always go to Eugene when you can't make it to Lebanon, since every landing at KEUG requires 2 spousal drives (1 round trip to pick you up, 1 round trip to drop you off later) that's 4 hours, plus  the 'regular' 2 hours for you, plus the 30 minutes for a round trip to Lebanon, so you 'lose' by 270 minutes.   

So it's basically a ratio of 3 to 1... If you think you'll actually land at Lebanon 3/4 of the time, it's probably worth it.

This does assume that you value your spouse's 'last minute' time is the same value as yours.  And that the repositioning flight is neutral value, as well as leaving the plane at Eugene for a night or two until the weather improves.

 

In order for the average drive time to be worse, you'd need to have to be unable to land at 1/3 of the flights you take.   

 

You could leave a car or something at Eugene in the winters which would help, but you'd need an extra car. 

[haymak3r]

I definitely don't make hay. It's an old gamer handle that I have had for almost 18 years. Though, he thinks he is already an adult.. Freakin teens.