Damaged M20M

[Greg17572]

Neighbor accidentally backed into the tail of my M20M causing considerable damage to tail section of the aircraft and some other related damage to the aircraft as well. Does anyone know what models of Mooney aircraft have the same tail section as the Mooney M20M? Does anyone know of a good Mooney repair facility near Florida or central Florida?

[alextstone]

  On 12/13/2023 at 2:06 PM, Greg17572 said:

Neighbor accidentally backed into the tail of my M20M causing considerable damage to tail section of the aircraft and some other related damage to the aircraft as well. Does anyone know what models of Mooney aircraft have the same tail section as the Mooney M20M? Does anyone know of a good Mooney repair facility near Florida or central Florida?

Expand  

Mooney Bravo Tail Part:

 

Vertical Stabilizer:  https://baspartsales.com/450000-511-08102-11-mooney-m20m-vertical-stabilizer-core-w-tks-de-ice-panels/

 

Researching now for others...

[KSMooniac]

Damn.  Sorry to see such carnage.  My suspicion is that the Bravo empennage is common to any of the long bodies, but you'll have to verify part numbers in the IPC's for each model.  I would suggest a call to BAS (linked above) as they have parted-out Bravos this year and may have some inventory.  If you're lucky, damage can be fixed by un-bolting your empennage and bolting on a replacement, and painting to match.  You mentioned other damage...can you expand on that?  If it is confined to the tail, you won't need a Mooney expert, frankly, just a competent mechanic that can read the manual and inspect the structural connections of the empennage.

[EricJ]

Ouch, sorry to see.   

Looks like you want the entire empennage, and also a careful inspection of the rest of the airframe tail to make sure nothing else got tweaked, cracked, damaged, etc.  The bulkheads where the empennage attaches, trim and control rods, etc., might need some help as well.    If you're out parts shopping, make sure you've sorted out everything you need.

[LANCECASPER]

  On 12/13/2023 at 2:06 PM, Greg17572 said:

Neighbor accidentally backed into the tail of my M20M causing considerable damage to tail section of the aircraft and some other related damage to the aircraft as well. Does anyone know what models of Mooney aircraft have the same tail section as the Mooney M20M? Does anyone know of a good Mooney repair facility near Florida or central Florida?

Expand  

Sorry to see that. Even though it's a neighbor and maybe also a friend, make sure you are made whole by his insurance (proper repair, payment for any rental aircraft). Since your airplane will have a damage history now, I would also ask for "Loss of Value" and see what they say.

[Utah20Gflyer]

I’d remove the fairing between fuselage and the tail and see how it looks.  
 

 I would want that bulkhead inspected very carefully, including maybe die penetrant inspection to make sure it’s sound.  The tail is only held on by a couple pieces of hardware, so it’s critical there isn’t damage.

[LANCECASPER]

  On 12/13/2023 at 2:06 PM, Greg17572 said:

Neighbor accidentally backed into the tail of my M20M causing considerable damage to tail section of the aircraft and some other related damage to the aircraft as well. Does anyone know what models of Mooney aircraft have the same tail section as the Mooney M20M? Does anyone know of a good Mooney repair facility near Florida or central Florida?

Expand  

@philiplane is the M20M guru and would be someone I'd talk to since he's in Florida.

[Aerodon]

  On 12/13/2023 at 6:12 PM, Utah20Gflyer said:

I’d remove the fairing between fuselage and the tail and see how it looks.  
 

 I would want that bulkhead inspected very carefully, including maybe die penetrant inspection to make sure it’s sound.  The tail is only held on by a couple pieces of hardware, so it’s critical there isn’t damage.

Expand  

I would want all the attachment hardware removed and thrown away.  Even Boeing has got it wrong numerous times with repairs, when you get to fly again, you will want to feel safe.  And when you get to sell the plane, the next guy will want a high degree of confidence that it was repaired properly.

Impact damage is really hard to assess.  There is the space between 'elastic' and  'plastic' deformation and then failure.  Dye penetrant will show if it's failed (cracks), but will not show plastic deformation.  It's obvious in the wrinkled sheets, but not so obvious in the hinge and attachment points.

Aerodon

 

 

 

[anthonydesmet]

Awe F, that makes a not a good Christmas present!  Where are you located?  The fact you’re asking for a mechanic leads me to believe you’re at an airpark or somewhere that mechs are hard to come by. 

[1980Mooney]

  On 12/13/2023 at 11:52 PM, anthonydesmet said:

Awe F, that makes a not a good Christmas present!  Where are you located?  The fact you’re asking for a mechanic leads me to believe you’re at an airpark or somewhere that mechs are hard to come by. 

Expand  

Flightaware shows he is at Love Field-97FL which is 25 miles south east of Ocala in the middle of nowhere. ( between Lady Lake and Weirsdale)

[affricate]

  On 12/13/2023 at 2:22 PM, alextstone said:

Mooney Bravo Tail Part:

 

Vertical Stabilizer:  https://baspartsales.com/450000-511-08102-11-mooney-m20m-vertical-stabilizer-core-w-tks-de-ice-panels/

 

Researching now for others...

Expand  

This vertical stabilizer was part of N1085W, and if I remember correctly,

(The only reason I remember this is because I fly N1085G)

I am sorry to hear about your plane. 

[1980Mooney]

  On 12/14/2023 at 3:25 AM, affricate said:

This vertical stabilizer was part of N1085W, and if I remember correctly,

(The only reason I remember this is because I fly N1085G)

I am sorry to hear about your plane. 

Expand  

That salvage plane has TKS.  The OP's plane does not.  I don't think that the vertical stabilizer is of any use to him.

N9119X | 1990 MOONEY M20M BRAVO on Aircraft.com

[1980Mooney]

  On 12/13/2023 at 4:58 PM, EricJ said:

Ouch, sorry to see.   

Looks like you want the entire empennage, and also a careful inspection of the rest of the airframe tail to make sure nothing else got tweaked, cracked, damaged, etc.  The bulkheads where the empennage attaches, trim and control rods, etc., might need some help as well.    If you're out parts shopping, make sure you've sorted out everything you need.

Expand  

 

  On 12/13/2023 at 6:12 PM, Utah20Gflyer said:

I’d remove the fairing between fuselage and the tail and see how it looks.  

 I would want that bulkhead inspected very carefully, including maybe die penetrant inspection to make sure it’s sound.  The tail is only held on by a couple pieces of hardware, so it’s critical there isn’t damage.

Expand  

 

  On 12/13/2023 at 6:52 PM, Aerodon said:

I would want all the attachment hardware removed and thrown away.  Even Boeing has got it wrong numerous times with repairs, when you get to fly again, you will want to feel safe.  And when you get to sell the plane, the next guy will want a high degree of confidence that it was repaired properly.

Impact damage is really hard to assess.  There is the space between 'elastic' and  'plastic' deformation and then failure.  Dye penetrant will show if it's failed (cracks), but will not show plastic deformation.  It's obvious in the wrinkled sheets, but not so obvious in the hinge and attachment points.

Aerodon

Expand  

@Greg17572  as others have commented, the entire empennage is connected to the rear tailcone bulkhead by only two (2) upper hinges and one (1) lower folding piano hinge.  The stabilizer trim system has one torque tube shaft pushing the stabilizer up and down.  The curmpling of the empennage aluminum disipated some of the energy of the collision but those two upper hinges and that stabilizer torque tube took all the force of that collision.  The damage to the empennage is evident but there is likely internal damage within the fuselage tailcone.  The folding piano hinge keeps it stabilized laterally and may have suffered twisting/offcenter damage.

410067-001 Mooney M20M Fitting Main Empennage Attach (baspartsales.com)

480009-505 Mooney M20J Hinge Assy Tailcone (baspartsales.com)  M20J lower empennage hinge.

The attached SB shows some pictures of the lower piano hinge and bulkhead.  M20_313A (mooney.com)

This SB has some pictures of the empennage removed.  The first pic shows how it is attached.  - M20_303 (mooney.com)

I suspect you will need to get this plane to a specialist shop - probably by truck.  You may need the tailcone bulkhead also rebuilt.

[alextstone]

  On 12/14/2023 at 3:25 AM, affricate said:

This vertical stabilizer was part of N1085W, and if I remember correctly,
(The only reason I remember this is because I fly N1085G)
I am sorry to hear about your plane. 

@affricate , I bought the salvaged engine off this plane. It so happens that Western Skyways just finished testing the crankshaft and other components. They all passed inspection including the crankshaft.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[aviatoreb]

I've purchased a tks stall strip from a salvage M20M a few years ago, that I keep in my hangar just in case since I lost one once and they were both crazy over priced and impossible to get - long lead time - from the oem.  I got it for 10 cents on the dollar.  Go get em' guys!

[Little Dipper]

  On 12/14/2023 at 2:04 PM, aviatoreb said:

I've purchased a tks stall strip from a salvage M20M a few years ago, that I keep in my hangar just in case since I lost one once and they were both crazy over priced and impossible to get - long lead time - from the oem.  I got it for 10 cents on the dollar.  Go get em' guys!

Expand  

Smart move.   I lost a tks stall strip about four years ago and if I remember correctly the part cost about 3k.

[Mufflerbearing]

  On 12/14/2023 at 2:04 PM, aviatoreb said:

I've purchased a tks stall strip from a salvage M20M a few years ago, that I keep in my hangar just in case since I lost one once and they were both crazy over priced and impossible to get - long lead time - from the oem.  I got it for 10 cents on the dollar.  Go get em' guys!

Expand  

Yep, and I need one.  Calling in the morning.

[philiplane]

  On 12/13/2023 at 2:06 PM, Greg17572 said:

Neighbor accidentally backed into the tail of my M20M causing considerable damage to tail section of the aircraft and some other related damage to the aircraft as well. Does anyone know what models of Mooney aircraft have the same tail section as the Mooney M20M? Does anyone know of a good Mooney repair facility near Florida or central Florida?

Expand  

WOW, that's, umm.... crunchy. This calls for a detailed inspection of the empennage, and even the aft wing spar attach points. If there was any side load during the hit, you can get other damage that might not be evident upon first glance. Buckling of skins is the obvious sign, but sometimes you'll find oil-canning of skins where the underlying structure has deformed a bit, or maybe some rivets stretched or sheared. Pretty much everything aft of the main spar needs a thorough inspection. Don't be surprised if the insurance company wants to total it. 

The mechanic evaluating the plane will need to know if the plane was chocked, and if the hit from the vehicle was square, or at a left or right angle, and is the back of the vehicle the same elevation, did the impact push up or down on the airplane? This is to determine what else needs to be examined forward of the tail.

Edited December 15, 2023 by philiplane

[1980Mooney]

  On 12/13/2023 at 2:06 PM, Greg17572 said:

Neighbor accidentally backed into the tail of my M20M causing considerable damage to tail section of the aircraft and some other related damage to the aircraft as well. Does anyone know what models of Mooney aircraft have the same tail section as the Mooney M20M? Does anyone know of a good Mooney repair facility near Florida or central Florida?

Expand  

 

  On 12/15/2023 at 2:34 AM, philiplane said:

WOW, that's, umm crunchy. This calls for a detailed inspection of the empennage, and even the aft wing spar attach points. If there was any side load during the hit, you can get other damage that might not be evident upon first glance. Buckling of skins is the obvious sign, but sometimes you'll find oil-canning of skins where the underlying structure has deformed a bit, or maybe some rivets stretched or sheared. Pretty much everything aft of the main spar needs a thorough inspection. Don't be surprised if the insurance company wants to total it. 

Expand  

Here is another picture of the multi fold piano hinge between the tailcone rear bulkhead and the empennage.  See the pic on page 9.  

Present Position (themooneyflyer.com)

That structure back there is an engineering marvel - it doesn't look very strong but it is just robust enough to do the job.   It is not like the wing structure which looks like it is  overbuilt.

Unfortunately I was thinking the same thing as @philiplane but didn't want to say it.  Everything back there is critical.  There are probably a few places qualified to repair it which might make both airworthy and maximize value retention.  In years past, something like this would go back to the factory for repair.  But I doubt that they are qualified to do it anymore. 

The experience and reputation of the shop you use to repair it (if the insurance company doesnt total it) will impact its resale value.   It will need to be trucked somewhere.  If you are thinking that it can be repaired locally, someone might attempt it, but it will impact ability to sell it in the future.

Edited December 15, 2023 by 1980Mooney

[LANCECASPER]

  On 12/15/2023 at 3:11 AM, 1980Mooney said:

In years past, something like this would go back to the factory for repair.  But I doubt that they are qualified to do it anymore. 

I believe they could do it.



They have the ability to call in people that have worked there off and on for years if they need them.

[anthonydesmet]

  On 12/14/2023 at 2:41 AM, 1980Mooney said:

Flightaware shows he is at Love Field-97FL which is 25 miles south east of Ocala in the middle of nowhere. ( between Lady Lake and Weirsdale)

Expand  

Right next to me at X35.  @Greg17572, if you need mechanic, Ron at Red Sky here at X35 might be able to assist. Let me know if you want me to reach out to him.

[PilotX]

  On 12/13/2023 at 2:06 PM, Greg17572 said:

Neighbor accidentally backed into the tail of my M20M causing considerable damage to tail section of the aircraft and some other related damage to the aircraft as well. Does anyone know what models of Mooney aircraft have the same tail section as the Mooney M20M? Does anyone know of a good Mooney repair facility near Florida or central Florida?

Expand  

Your neighbor accidentally hates you. Seems to have been backing up in a hurry. 

[FoxMike]

Out of curiosity what was your neighbor driving a gas truck?

[Greg17572]

  On 12/13/2023 at 6:24 PM, LANCECASPER said:

@philiplane is the M20M guru and would be someone I'd talk to since he's in Florida.

Expand  

If that is PJ Aviation, I spoke with him a few days ago. He said he is retiring and closing at the end of the year.

[Greg17572]

  On 12/17/2023 at 3:09 AM, FoxMike said:

Out of curiosity what was your neighbor driving a gas truck?

Expand  

Volvo