thinking about a 252

[bd32322]

I currently have a 1987 201 lean machine - had it for one year - and I really love the plane. The aircraft turned out to be pretty much as advertised, performance, condition of airframe, engine, interior etc - so I was extremely pleased. However, looks like what I really need is a faster plane to get me to those spots where I would otherwise have to stop and refuel in my J model. Its just me and my wife flying normally.

 

So I started looking on controller and found this:

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20K-252TSE/1986-MOONEY-M20K-252TSE/1232387.htm?

 

It seems to be pretty cheap. I have gone and seen the plane myself - the interior needs work and the exterior looks much worse than my plane of the same age - although both have been hangared all their life and both have the original paint. The biggest problem though is that the plane has done only 430 hours since a factory reman in 1998.

I am not sure I can catch engine inactivity problems even with a good pre-buy (I plan on doing a good pre-buy). Is this a good buy? What do you guys think? If inactivity has caused corrosion what am I looking at to fix it? A top overhaul - a complete overhaul?

 

How much does a top overhaul cost for one of these MB engines. A full overhaul runs 50k.

 

Thanks

[gjkirsch]

What I like are the dual alternators, the extended range tanks, and the garmin 430.  It does not say anything about damage history.  Did you see any indication that there were fuel tanks leaks? You can pull a cylinder as part of a prepurchase and get a better idea of the condition of the engine. 

Until you get a complete picture as part of a very through prepurchase/annual, the price is irrevelant. 

[bd32322]

I didnt see any leaks and the tanks were full. I have yet to do a full pre-purchase inspection - including a borescope inspection etc.

[jackn]

I like the idea of buying a plane with a run-out engine, if it is priced accordingly. Top end will run about $20k, you could even do an Encore conversion. While you're at it, you would overhaul the mags, ignition harness, new alt, baffling, hoses,etc. Then new interior, fuel tanks, etc. Just make sure that the airframe is clean, no corrosion. If you could pick it up for $115k, you would have a winner for around $160k - $170 or so. If your budget is really $125k, then I'd suggest a 231.

[bd32322]

Quote: JimR

That paint doesn't look "always hangared" to me.  I suspect that there is a reason that it doesn't look as good as yours and that is because it has actually spent a good deal of time outside.  My 201 was painted in 1987 and the paint still shines like new.  And it is red.  The royalite also appears to be very yellowed, which isn't a big deal and is easily and inexpensively correctable, but it is another indicator of significant UV exposure.  Just something to think about.

Jim

[Cris]

If you want to increase speed you need to fly the 231 at altiudes generally with O2. Otherwise the 201 particularly a light LM is probably faster. The real speed increase comes with long range tanks avoiding a fuel stop. This assumes one is willing to fly for 5+ hours without a break. I bought an 99' Eagle STC'ed 310HP with 260 Hrs on the engine & 310TT with the the standard 100 gal tanks on the long body. It has been flawless in its first year. Typically 231's do not make TBO without a top overhaul so I'd be less concerned with the top at this point. I'd think 13-15K would be an appropriate range which you could factor into the price.

[WardHolbrook]

Quote: bd32322

yeah I had the same concerns. Doesnt look like anything close to my current plane.

As for the long range tanks - they are nice to have if I am flying alone - which I seldom do. With a 860 lb useful load - once all the tanks are filled - I can fit only one person

[201er]

Quote: WardHolbrook

Why carry surplus fuel that restricts the number of passengers that you could otherwise carry? In the case of LR tanks, it makes no sense to routinely carry around 1000+ miles of fuel if you're flying a 300 mile trip.

[jackn]

I agree!

[Jerry 5TJ]

Quote: 201er

Because then you can buy it where it's really cheap and fly your next 8 hours off fuel at that price.

[Steve Dawson]

Looking at what's currently for sale and if the pre buy works out with any cost to bring the engine and aircraft up to airworthyness isn't a large factor this is a pretty good buy.  The LR tanks, dual altenators and 430 are bonuses. You can always upgrade your plane as specials are announced. Looking at previous threads here I believe the encore conversion will allow a GW increase to maybe offset the extra weight of the LR tanks.

[aviatoreb]

Quote: jerry-N5911Q

Because then you can buy it where it's really cheap and fly your next 8 hours off fuel at that price.

[bd32322]

Quote: Cris

If you want to increase speed you need to fly the 231 at altiudes generally with O2. Otherwise the 201 particularly a light LM is probably faster. The real speed increase comes with long range tanks avoiding a fuel stop. This assumes one is willing to fly for 5+ hours without a break. I bought an 99' Eagle STC'ed 310HP with 260 Hrs on the engine & 310TT with the the standard 100 gal tanks on the long body. It has been flawless in its first year. Typically 231's do not make TBO without a top overhaul so I'd be less concerned with the top at this point. I'd think 13-15K would be an appropriate range which you could factor into the price.

[jetdriven]

Do you think a 231 or 252 would need a top overhaul if the owners had an engine monitor and did not exceed 400 CHT?   I can totally see how "back in the day" you ran it ROP with a single point TIT and a CHT needle "in the green" at 475.  They didnt know any better back then.

[jackn]

If you fly fairly often, don't abuse your engine(easier with the 252), and maintain it well, you won't need a top end. BTW, a top-end is nothing to be afraid of. If you fly for 10-15 years, then replace the cylinders, therefore bringing it back to it's original performance, the engine may not need a major during your ownership.

[Cris]

The subject 252 does not indicate that it has anything other than a single point EGT so I would assume it has been run ROP but who knows. In any event I'd probably replace each cyl. as required but I'd plan on having to do them sooner rather than latter. Even so you might have no issues as in my case. I'd not pass on an A/C just because it had so few hours. Just plan accordingly.

[Parker_Woodruff]

The 252 runs perfectly cool at 100% power during climbout and high power settings while LOP. 

The exception on my plane is cylinder #2 which takes special care to keep in the 380s or lower. I'm investigating the baffling now and hoping that's what's causing the heat. That cyl is also my worst compression, at 68/80. Engine has 900ish hours on it with no top overhaul. All other cyls in the 70s

[Piloto]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

The 252 runs perfectly cool at 100% power during climbout and high power settings while LOP.

[Piloto]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

The 252 runs perfectly cool at 100% power during climbout and high power settings while LOP.

The exception on my plane is cylinder #2 which takes special care to keep in the 380s or lower. I'm investigating the baffling now and hoping that's what's causing the heat. That cyl is also my worst compression, at 68/80. Engine has 900ish hours on it with no top overhaul. All other cyls in the 70s

[bd32322]

Thanks for the input guys!

what kind of useful loads do you guys have on the 252 (without the encore conversion)?

[sreid]

Quote: Piloto

[danb35]

Quote: Piloto

Check if the cylinder fins has been repainted. A thick coat of paint can easily increase temp by 30F. Being a front cylinder it should not be hotter than the others.

[jackn]

My #2 is the coolest. Parker, check the muffler heat shroud, they leak like crazy. My #3 was 25 degrees hotter, till I found a gap in the shroud blowing hot air on the CHT probe. Fixed the gap, problem solved.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Correct, #2 is in the back, closest to the pilot. Right next to the oil cooler IIRC.

I did a lot of talking with GAMI this week at SnF and they gave me lots of things to check out