IFR equipment and capability

[Fly Boomer]

19 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

A person will spend over 100k, 200k 500k  on a plane but will do anything they can to not put a desent USB charger onboard...dont even ask about a monoxide detector...

Very likely overheated because it was charging.  Mine never overheats when not plugged in, but overheats with some regularity when on the charger.

[hammdo]

I use the xnaut for my iPad to keep it cool.. so far so good…

-Don

[kortopates]

I use the xnaut for my iPad to keep it cool.. so far so good…
-Don

I use a Mygoflight Cool case, similar with fan but no batteries. Runs off the single charging cable for the ipad, while still charging, or the ipad battery itself.
It’s pretty neat setup.
I go in and out of planes during the day and would be constantly changing those 4 AA batteries.


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[DXB]

3 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

The loss of the chart should be a non-event.

How so?  Certainly wouldn't be for me...

[kortopates]

How so?  Certainly wouldn't be for me...

Especially on a vectors to final on a precision approach, every thing you need is on the GPS Navigator except for minimums. The gps will guide you through the missed as well.
If a non precision approach, you’ll find the step down altitudes on the current generation GPS’s, if not, approach or tower can help you out with these.


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[Ragsf15e]

The controllers (well many) are savvy enough to be able to read approaches a give you minimus if you need it.  Agree that losing the approach plate should not be a significant problem, just need to know what to ask for… minimums on a vtf, maybe alternate missed approach instructions, etc.

[PeteMc]

4 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

but overheats with some regularity when on the charger.

Is your iPad in a case?  That is usually the cause of the overheating.  I leave my iPad plugged in most of the time and it has never overheated.  No case though, just in a RAM yoke mount.

 

[Fly Boomer]

14 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

Is your iPad in a case?  That is usually the cause of the overheating.  I leave my iPad plugged in most of the time and it has never overheated.  No case though, just in a RAM yoke mount.

 

It is in a case.  Might have to try one of those MyGoFlight cases.

[Jim Peace]

5 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Very likely overheated because it was charging.  Mine never overheats when not plugged in, but overheats with some regularity when on the charger.

I am based in Florida and my iPad never overheats....it's always in the sun etc....I have it plugged into a stratus iPad panel mount charger....

What I have seen overheat is my stratus 2 that I sometimes use when I fly my friends airplanes....but the iPad never....

[PeteMc]

5 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Might have to try one of those MyGoFlight cases.

Sure, if you like it on your leg/lap.  They look like nice cases with some ventilation.  But if you're going to yoke mount your iPad, then for 1/4 the price you might look at the RAM mounts.

 

[DXB]

9 hours ago, kortopates said:

Especially on a vectors to final on a precision approach, every thing you need is on the GPS Navigator except for minimums. The gps will guide you through the missed as well.
If a non precision approach, you’ll find the step down altitudes on the current generation GPS’s, if not, approach or tower can help you out with these.


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Once I’ve got the panel fully set up and am getting vectored on a precision approach I mostly agree; however, even then I have had a controller screw up in a way that would have been hard to deal with without plate loaded up so I could challenge with confidence.  Before I’ve got the panel set fully up and the plate briefed, I’d most likely ask for I delaying vector so I could pull up the plate on my backup and start over.

[Fly Boomer]

8 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

I am based in Florida and my iPad never overheats....it's always in the sun etc....I have it plugged into a stratus iPad panel mount charger....

What I have seen overheat is my stratus 2 that I sometimes use when I fly my friends airplanes....but the iPad never....

Hard to say.  Maybe depends on which model, age, color, etc.

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, PeteMc said:

Sure, if you like it on your leg/lap.  They look like nice cases with some ventilation.  But if you're going to yoke mount your iPad, then for 1/4 the price you might look at the RAM mounts.

 

I thought I read that the MyGoFlight case was compatible with RAM mounts.

[BravoWhiskey]

From the comments it seems most IFR capable pilots have a plan of action if something like this happens.  When I took my lessons for IFR my CFII took the plate from me and said ok, now what?  The take away here is, have a plan and a backup plan.  Oh, and maybe if you are not current or proficient then don’t risk it.  

[midlifeflyer]

13 hours ago, DXB said:

How so?  Certainly wouldn't be for me...

What nav equipment do you have? Apparently, the pilot had GNS430.

1. Load the approach. I shouldn't  have to mention that but based on the audio, that seems to have been a missing piece. You've lost so much situational awareness that you have no clue where you are even with the certified unit's moving map? See steps 2 & 3.
2. Report the chart loss to the controller. Our pilot sort of did that.
3. Tell the controller what you need. With a GNS, the courses are all there even for a full approach., but you will need altitudes. (With something  newer you wouldn't even need that, but let's stick with the more limited unit.)  And perhaps you will want to enter the procedure at a specific fix or get vectors to final if available.  So you ask the controller to read them to you. In this case, the controller, knowing there was a problem, vectored the pilot to a straight in fix and assigned an altitude until established, so that was all taken care of.
4. Fly the approach. 

I put #3 in read because (other than reporting the problem) it is literally the only thing out of the ordinary. That's why I say it should be a non-event. I've done this with pilots in recurrent training.  If you've never simulated an iPad failure (with no EFB or chart backups) grab a CFII (so they can simulate ATC) and practice it. 

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, BravoWhiskey said:

When I took my lessons for IFR my CFII took the plate from me and said ok, now what?

Don't keep us in suspense, what was your solution?

[Andy95W]

2 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

 

1. Load the approach. 
2. Report the chart loss to the controller.
3. Tell the controller what you need. 
4. Fly the approach. 

 

I would only add 2 items to Mark’s excellent summation, above.

1.) If you have an autopilot, turn it on. 
2.) If you feel like you’re in over your head, declare an emergency.  This isn’t a time for pride and ego.

Most of us as pilots like to be as self sufficient as possible.  It’s probably better to remember that if you have a Comm radio, you’re never truly alone.  ATC is there to help and wants you to land safely- almost as much as you do.

[dzeleski]

On 10/1/2023 at 10:24 PM, 201Steve said:

This guy has never flown an approach in his life. The iPad thing was just the bs. I’m far from an expert of ifr flying but folks like this make me feel excellent about it. 

I tend to agree. My very first approach during training wasnt this insane.

I carry two iPads at all times for this exact reason though, and if I know im flying IMC I prep my phone as well. It was drilled into me while prepping for an approach to write down all the critical info on a notepad. That way if it does die you still have everything you need to complete the approach.

I have also successfully flown an approach (simulated IMC) using just my iPad as well, its not fun but it will work if you practice it a few times.

[BravoWhiskey]

3 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Don't keep us in suspense, what was your solution?

I don’t remember the exact details but I was a bit of a smart ass and asked him to read the next part of the approach to me.  I was surprised when he read it to me and said “correct, when in doubt just ask ATC”.  We later had a discussion about it.  You should have and know the approach but things happen.  You forget, or maybe get rerouted/diverted.  ATC will do what they can to help you.  

[PeteMc]

10 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

I thought I read that the MyGoFlight case was compatible with RAM mounts.

I'm assuming they do the same thing.  But when you mentioned their name I looked at the website and it looked pricier than RAM.

 

[PeteMc]

7 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Don't keep us in suspense, what was your solution?

Not sure what @BravoWhiskey's answer was back then.  Mine would be to let the Controller know and just ask them to read me the Fixes and Altitudes, Missed, etc.  Then I'd draw out my own Chart.  When I get near the IAF I'd remind them that this is a No Chart approach and to keep me honest.

Don't know if it was on a true story or just one all CFIIs tell to newbies, but have you heard the one where the cockpit door opens and the charts sitting on the Pax Seat ALL get sucked out the door....  

 

[201Steve]

@midlifeflyer exactly. Only way you can’t figure out how to load an approach and ask ATC what remaining details you’d need to shoot an mvfr approach, simply hasn’t ever actually flown an approach. There are cirrus pilots that fly approaches without looking at the plate every day!!!

[midlifeflyer]

9 hours ago, 201Steve said:

@midlifeflyer exactly. Only way you can’t figure out how to load an approach and ask ATC what remaining details you’d need to shoot an mvfr approach, simply hasn’t ever actually flown an approach. There are cirrus pilots that fly approaches without looking at the plate every day!!!

Jokes aside, many (most? Almost all?)  Cirrus pilots are flying avionics systems that display the charts. 

And while it's true that with a GPS/FMS it's easy, and manageable even without it, I suspect many instrument pilots have never given it much thought and would be taken aback, so I can't quite put it in the "never flew" one category.

[PMcClure]

15 hours ago, PeteMc said:

 

Don't know if it was on a true story or just one all CFIIs tell to newbies, but have you heard the one where the cockpit door opens and the charts sitting on the Pax Seat ALL get sucked out the door....  

 

Happened to me - used to carry paper charts as back up. Door popped open in cruise and everything was sucked out the door. 

[Schllc]

On 10/2/2023 at 1:06 AM, PeteMc said:

You may be right....  But I also wonder if he's an IFR newbie or someone that just barely keeps current and when they lost the plate they lost all "smarts" and confidence.  Also wouldn't surprise me if they never learned or, again, doesn't train enough to know how to load the approach actually on the GPS, he just loaded it in the iPad and sent it to the GPS.

Hope the FSDO has a LONG talk with him and requires some serious training.  We don't know, but there easily could have been passengers onboard.

 

Could be a newbie ifr but I have to say, the few months after I got my ticket is probably the most proficient I have ever been...