First time airplane owner - considering a 1964 M20E - advice?

[M20F-1968]

On 8/20/2023 at 3:40 PM, gmonnig said:

C and E models make great first planes! My friend bought his C with less than 100hrs TT. A good plane in this market will demand a pretty high price. There are deals out there but as others have said, purchase price is kind of the beginning. You will want to do upgrades, so best find a plane with a lot of the stuff already done. I have a problem where I buy planes and upgrade them. It's my hobby but it's not financially smart. I have put about $40k+ in the last 1.5yrs in my E and I still want to install the GFC500 autopilot ($15k). I have held off since it will put me well into M20J/K territory if I sell this plane. 
 

I still can't believe the prices of planes right now. Seeing 172s and Cherokees selling in the $120k+ when you can get a 150kt E for the same price or less. Crazy.

But will the J be equipped as well as your E?

John Breda

[M20F-1968]

On 8/20/2023 at 8:40 PM, ElisiumNate said:

Thanks for the perpective! Was this the other airplane you were looking at? I like this one too! https://shorturl.at/ghpx0

FYI - That looks to be an F without flush inspection panels and without flush rivets.

John Breda

[gmonnig]

5 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

But will the J be equipped as well as your E?

John Breda

Absolutely not. Also won't have new paint, new interior, new engine etc etc. I have 9yrs before early retirement where I could own whatever I really want (piston). I can still see myself riding out this E to retirement! 

[hoot777]

Cheap price from my experience equates to run out engines and poor avionics. By the best you can afford and enjoy it. 68 M20 G owner

[00-Negative]

Hi all. I'm a new pilot as of last week. I started shopping planes around Christmas and got serious over the summer. One big issue aside from the high prices on high time engines and outdated avionics was insuring my purchase. I finally found a low time 1966 M20E that was well cared for by an older gentleman. Paid $71k. Quotes were ridiculous. Most ranging from $5k-$6k/year for $70k hull value. If I'm willing to pay that, why not just buy a second plane and keep it as backup? A few in the $4k range. So I did what any good Dad would do, I told my girls there would be no Christmas this year, drained our bank account, and paid cash for the plane without insurance. My instructor and I picked it up and flew it to my home airport where I have a hangar. Now that I have my ppl, I was able to get a policy with Avemco for $3,042/year. I called them around the beginning of the year to inquire about a M20F I was considering, still $70k hull value, and the quote was $3,200. I'm putting this information out here because this thread discussed various insurance coverages and pricing for low hour pilots. I only have 85hrs total, all in a C172. I also live in South Louisiana where we spend this part of the year with one eye on the Gulf of Mexico waiting on the next Category 4. So maybe pricing is coming around...

[Fly Boomer]

23 hours ago, 00-Negative said:

Hi all. I'm a new pilot as of last week. I started shopping planes around Christmas and got serious over the summer. One big issue aside from the high prices on high time engines and outdated avionics was insuring my purchase. I finally found a low time 1966 M20E that was well cared for by an older gentleman. Paid $71k. Quotes were ridiculous. Most ranging from $5k-$6k/year for $70k hull value. If I'm willing to pay that, why not just buy a second plane and keep it as backup? A few in the $4k range. So I did what any good Dad would do, I told my girls there would be no Christmas this year, drained our bank account, and paid cash for the plane without insurance. My instructor and I picked it up and flew it to my home airport where I have a hangar. Now that I have my ppl, I was able to get a policy with Avemco for $3,042/year. I called them around the beginning of the year to inquire about a M20F I was considering, still $70k hull value, and the quote was $3,200. I'm putting this information out here because this thread discussed various insurance coverages and pricing for low hour pilots. I only have 85hrs total, all in a C172. I also live in South Louisiana where we spend this part of the year with one eye on the Gulf of Mexico waiting on the next Category 4. So maybe pricing is coming around...

Welcome to MooneySpace!  And thanks for being a supporter.

[Greg Ellis]

On 8/23/2023 at 1:26 PM, Shadrach said:

I’ve used this broker for 20 years. In 2003 I checked out in my M20F with just 210hrs total time. I think they required 10hrs of dual and 5 hours solo before passengers. Insurance was $950 a year. Todays market is different indeed. We’re paying double that with over 1000 in type.

check out https://air-pros.com. They may have a better option.

I have used air-pros.com since I have owned my Mooney (17 years I think).  They have always come in less than any other insurance broker.

[Greg Ellis]

On 8/23/2023 at 9:57 AM, Entropy said:

I’m in a very similar situation to OP, so just want to say “thanks” to all the input as well. No forum community is perfect, but this one has been very helpful to all us new flyers. Appreciate it!

 

I have pretty much settled on finding the right M20F for my mission. Now comes the time of patience and careful consideration.

There are currently 8 F models for sale on www.controller.com

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, Greg Ellis said:

I have used air-pros.com since I have owned my Mooney (17 years I think).  They have always come in less than any other insurance broker.

In addition to good service, they are super nice people. They are local to me, so I personally drop off a check each year. I gotten to know the owner and encounter many of the employees in the community. Years ago, he gave me my HP check out in his C185. They treat their employees very well, most of whom are pilots.

[ElisiumNate]

Cool to see this thread is still going! 

So far Avemco has been the cheapest (about $3800/year) which I mostly expected with 130 hours TT and only 10 complex hours (in a Piper Arrow), still just VFR.  

I've got my heart & mind set on an absolutely amazing 1964 M20E, hoping the stars align and I'll be back here to update my profile with the N-number!! 

[mike_elliott]

Make sure you ask how much Avemco wants to add your CFI to the policy while you work on your instrument. They have been known to "surprise" you with this as an adder while other carriers dont.

[Aceleo]

First time aircraft buyer here.

I have been eyeing this Mooney M20E (N79821) for sometime too. As others have mentioned, it hasn’t been flying around much and the engine has about 500 hours before needing overhaul. But total time isn’t a lot and it’s got decent avionics.

Is overhauling an engine really as time consuming and expensive as I hear? It’s got the IO-360-A1A engine, fuel injected.

This aircraft is going for $74k listed, if I were to put an offer down, what do you guys think the best price for this Mooney would be?

link for reference:
1964 Mooney M20E N79821 - Trade a Plane

[hammdo]

That is a lot of years since overhaul (1976!). You’ll want to make sure all ADs (including the engine) are complied with. If you negotiate a bit, you may come out good- lots of great avionic updates already. A very good pre-buy turned to annual by a shop you choose (really check for corrosion) she may be a great forever plane.

Price is very subjective… looking over the plane and a demo flight would give a better idea to evaluate. Firstly, a very thorough review of the log books is necessay before doing anything - if those ck out then go to pre-buy/annual after a demo flight/visual inspection. Was the engine pickled when not flying? Lot’s to think about…

Southwest Texas aviation does a logbook review for a reasonable price… and they know Mooneys…

-Don

[KLRDMD]

On 8/22/2023 at 5:53 AM, Fly Boomer said:

Some on this forum have owned a huge number of airplanes.

I'm on my 19th airplane. Not a huge number but higher than most.

[ElisiumNate]

Glad to see this is still active! Since making this post I've met some great folks here and I'm working on buying a different 1964 M20E that is not listed for sale at the moment.  I decided against this one for two major reasons:

- The age of the engine & how long it's been sitting
- A Mooneyspace member messaged me and said it looks like it has corrosion most likely 

That said, the panel looked great and if you're not afraid to do the engine OH you probably are getting a good deal on the avionics.  I've decided to buy the nicest engine & airframe I can afford and live with an older panel for a while.  

[Aceleo]

14 minutes ago, ElisiumNate said:

Glad to see this is still active! Since making this post I've met some great folks here and I'm working on buying a different 1964 M20E that is not listed for sale at the moment.  I decided against this one for two major reasons:

- The age of the engine & how long it's been sitting
- A Mooneyspace member messaged me and said it looks like it has corrosion most likely 

That said, the panel looked great and if you're not afraid to do the engine OH you probably are getting a good deal on the avionics.  I've decided to buy the nicest engine & airframe I can afford and live with an older panel for a while.  

The Mooneyspace member who message you about the corrosion, did he see the corrosion in the pictures or he is suspecting corrosion and it’s not confirmed.

I do have a pre-buy lined up if I do decide to go with this aircraft. If the pre buy goes well, we will make it an annual.

[ElisiumNate]

DM'd you some more details.  

[chriscalandro]

1 hour ago, ElisiumNate said:

Glad to see this is still active! Since making this post I've met some great folks here and I'm working on buying a different 1964 M20E that is not listed for sale at the moment.  I decided against this one for two major reasons:

- The age of the engine & how long it's been sitting
- A Mooneyspace member messaged me and said it looks like it has corrosion most likely 

 

Those sound bogus without actually looking. You don’t know until you look. 
 

it isn’t always helpful or useful when an internet no it all assumes something for you. It actually happens a lot around here and has caused a lot of people to pass on good airplanes. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by chriscalandro

[ElisiumNate]

Chris, this airplane is very far from me so I trusted a fella on here who DID actually go see the airplane.  I don't think it's possible to truly know for sure if you're passing on a good airplane, but, I believe this one is not for me.  

Most of the people I've met on here have been genuinely helpful! Avoiding this airplane set me up to find the deal that was right for me, and maybe helps someone else who isn't afraid of the old engine, possible corrosion, or that it hasn't been kept in a hangar.  

I want to buy an airplane that's been flying regularly, is flying currently, and that has an engine built later than 1976.  That's not everyone's goal, but, it is mine! 

[Yooper Rocketman]

On 8/22/2023 at 12:36 PM, Yooper Rocketman said:

See my PM

Tom

At the risk of posting BEFORE the new owner of one of the most amazing M20E’s purchase confirmation, I will state I gave him a lead on my best friend of 15 years or longer’s plane, being sold by the fortunate and amazingly appreciative buyer several years ago,after making a MAJOR life career change, congratulations on a truly AMAZING M20E purchase!!!

I will digress to HIS POSTS on his acquisition going forward, but feel an immense satisfaction knowing my best friends airplane will go to a trusted new owner!!

And thanks, to the many supporters from this forum, for the trust and support you’ve provided me as I’ve tried to truly represent what my best friend had for an airplane!!!!!

 

Tom

[ElisiumNate]

Absolutely thrilled to have been able to take ownership of this marvelous machine.  I'll make a proper post soon, I pick the airplane up next week and fly it to its new home.  Tom, you've played a huge role in my life whether you know it or not.  I will not let you (or Chocks, or Steve) down.