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Posted

This plane has not flown since 1996, new owner started to restore in 2019, but lost interest during coved. Has 0 time engine, What should my concerns be to resolve first? are there specific issues to the 1966 E that I should be aware of? Do the tanks have bladders?  Am I crazy to attempt such a project?  Plane is in good condition visually, always hangered and was "Pickled" in 1996 they say.  Any advice would be great!

M20 E Super 21.jpg

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Posted
22 minutes ago, nevadabandit said:

This plane has not flown since 1996, new owner started to restore in 2019, but lost interest during coved. Has 0 time engine, What should my concerns be to resolve first? are there specific issues to the 1966 E that I should be aware of? Do the tanks have bladders?  Am I crazy to attempt such a project?  Plane is in good condition visually, always hangered and was "Pickled" in 1996 they say. 

Regardless of zero time and pickled or not, I would spend some quality time examining the engine before starting or even moving the prop.

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Posted

It looks like someone was lovin' on it ... I see plated valve covers, new COM antennas, later model towel bar NAV antennas, wing root fairing, etc. inn addition to the great wind shield upgrade.

I'd check the airframe for corrosion and fuel leaks, borescope a cylinder or two looking for rust, check the records, and likely go for it.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

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Posted

+1 to what everyone else is saying, this is about the best condition a hangar find can be in, new engine in 2019, looks . Check the airframe thoroughly for corrosion, get it annualed and have them borescope all the cylinders to check for any kind of corrosion, pre-oil the engine and run it through, then start it up and fly it. Fly it hard the first few months, 10-15hrs per month. Do an oil change at 10hrs and see if it's making any metal (new engine breaking in so you'll expect some). Once you transition it off mineral oil, do another oil change 10hrs after. Add Camguard when you transition to normal oil, it'll help clean-up any surface corrosion. 

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Posted
Add Camguard when you transition to normal oil, it'll help clean-up any surface corrosion. 

Camguard may help to prevent corrosion, but it won’t clean up or heal any existing corrosion damage.
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Posted
14 hours ago, nevadabandit said:

This plane has not flown since 1996, new owner started to restore in 2019, but lost interest during coved. Has 0 time engine, What should my concerns be to resolve first? are there specific issues to the 1966 E that I should be aware of? Do the tanks have bladders?  Am I crazy to attempt such a project?  Plane is in good condition visually, always hangered and was "Pickled" in 1996 they say.  Any advice would be great!

M20 E Super 21.jpg

What would be an average estimate of the value of this in this condition?

Posted
1 hour ago, nevadabandit said:

What would be an average estimate of the value of this in this condition?

Not enough info to tell, but the short answer is whatever you're willing to pay!  Interior and panel are unknown to us in the cheap seats.  Autopilot is a huge value mover too.  I'd survey the market to see what asking prices are currently all over the country, and make an estimate of how much you'll have to spend to buy and get airworthy, and see if you're happy with the comparison.  You might have a cream puff that would stand out from the crowd if already airworthy, so even if your estimate comes out higher than other asking prices, you might still be "ahead".  What is most important, though, is that you end up with a good, safe plane that will meet your needs.  If you "overpay" by 10% that shouldn't be a concern IMO.  If you underpay relative to the flying market, then bonus.

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Posted
1 hour ago, nevadabandit said:

What would be an average estimate of the value of this in this condition?

If you're an AOPA member, run a quick free estimate on VREF.  I just did it for my Mooney.  The numbers were close to what I had guesstimated by observing the market on Controller and Trade a Plane and they were consistent with what I'm being charged for property taxes.  Engine time and paint condition seem to really drive values.  Start with those numbers, then back off based on risk; log books, AD and SB compliance, avionics condition.  Make sure the fuel tanks hold fuel without leaking.  Looks like a great project.  A clean E could be a lot of fun.  My two cents anyway; from a guy that's not an expert.  

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Posted

Tough call... are you a mechanic, or at least mechanically-inclined (ie can help) or would you need to write a check to someone to get it back in the air?  Are you local to it, or would you need to truck it somewhere?  Big potential costs there.

The good:  (presumably) corrosion-free, and mostly damage-free (I don't count a prop strike), improved windshield STC, engine and prop condition (presuming no rust).

The bad:  interior (unless you're into retro), the panel, lack of autopilot, GPS, etc.  I would expect all of the gyros will be bad or go bad soon after flying.  Rubber and plastic might be rotten (think tubing/vac lines).  Hopefully no rodent damage, especially urine causing corrosion somewhere.  Once flying, you might get a new squawk every flight, leading to lots of aggravation if you're not in to fixing things as they crop up.

I haven't followed the market closely recently, but wonder if that plane flying today with an annual might fetch $90-100k in this crazy market, due to low engine time and lack of corrosion.  That leaves a lot of "headroom" to spend money if needed.  As long as it has been sitting, I would want to ditch all of the panel and install a Dynon system and just fix everything at once.  It would be a great candidate to build on, it seems.

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Posted

Given that it looks like everything is there I am curious why the owner didn’t finish putting it together, get it inspected and airworthy and then sell it for a premium? 
 

Seems like a part of the story is missing along with important clues about what the true nature of this airplane deal is. 
 

Could be a good deal but just depends on what is missing to make it airworthy.  I would guess that if everything is good with the engine and it was overhauled by a reputable shop it might be worth around 90k in flying condition- mostly as a result of the 0 smoh and has decent paint.  
 

The panel is outdated and like another person said expect to replace or repair instruments and maybe radios that have been sitting for a while.  I know this from personal experience.  It is nice it has the 8 pack configuration already. 
 

The interior is dated but interiors are relatively cheap compared to avionics or major engine work.  I didn’t see shoulder harnesses- you’ll want to add those ASAP. It’s a cheap way of not dying from an otherwise minor incident. 
 

 

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Posted
56 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

BTW, the craigslist ad just mysteriously got deleted while I was writing my response.  Did you buy it, or are you the seller?  :)

Yes, just purchased it, thanks to a lot of good information from all your guys who have responded!!   Thanks so Much!

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, KSMooniac said:

Tough call... are you a mechanic, or at least mechanically-inclined (ie can help) or would you need to write a check to someone to get it back in the air?  Are you local to it, or would you need to truck it somewhere?  Big potential costs there.

The good:  (presumably) corrosion-free, and mostly damage-free (I don't count a prop strike), improved windshield STC, engine and prop condition (presuming no rust).

The bad:  interior (unless you're into retro), the panel, lack of autopilot, GPS, etc.  I would expect all of the gyros will be bad or go bad soon after flying.  Rubber and plastic might be rotten (think tubing/vac lines).  Hopefully no rodent damage, especially urine causing corrosion somewhere.  Once flying, you might get a new squawk every flight, leading to lots of aggravation if you're not in to fixing things as they crop up.

I haven't followed the market closely recently, but wonder if that plane flying today with an annual might fetch $90-100k in this crazy market, due to low engine time and lack of corrosion.  That leaves a lot of "headroom" to spend money if needed.  As long as it has been sitting, I would want to ditch all of the panel and install a Dynon system and just fix everything at once.  It would be a great candidate to build on, it seems.

Yes, Im pretty handy and have had four other aircraft, and I have a friend who has been doing this stuff all his life to guide and help me.  Thanks again for your input

.

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Posted
Yes, Im pretty handy and have had four other aircraft, and I have a friend who has been doing this stuff all his life to guide and help me.  Thanks again for your input
.
Sounds like you were the right guy to buy it! Best of luck, start a thread to document. Other advice, keep a log book of your work that might be useful towards an A&P certificate in the future. I wish I did that 16 years ago.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

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Posted
1 hour ago, KSMooniac said:

Sounds like you were the right guy to buy it! Best of luck, start a thread to document. Other advice, keep a log book of your work that might be useful towards an A&P certificate in the future. I wish I did that 16 years ago.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk
 

Great Advice!  Thanks again

 

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Posted

Well now that you've purchased it, tell us more!

For anyone else that saw the CL ad, what was the asking price?

It's going to take a lot of work, but that could end up being a great plane for you!

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Posted

The CL ad was public and advertised 50 AMU so I don't think I'm spilling any secrets. The OP can share actual transaction price perhaps, but it seems like a good gamble for a motivated LOCAL buyer that doesn't need to pay someone to get it airworthy from a remote position. I hope it turns out great and gets in the air reasonably quickly.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

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Posted

 for corrosion in the steel cage and wing spar before you buy it though to make sure there is nothing on the airframe that cannot be corrected in an economic way.   If no issues are found, buy and ferry it home.  You can get a DER to issue a ferry permit.  ? Better avenue than the FAA as they may take a long time.   For purchase price purposes consider the plane unairworthy until you have bought it, and once you get it home consider it unairworthy until you investigate everything.  

Take a look at the pics of my project 68F and you can see what can be done to upgrade these birds if you are so inclined.

John Breda

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Posted

I've never had any problem getting a ferry permit from the FAA. I send the electronic copy in a cover email stating when I want to fly. They have always accommodated me in a timely manor. The principal inspector usually calls me on the phone a few minutes after I send the email. He likes to talk GA, he is sick of dealing with the airlines...

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Posted

I noticed the plane doesn't have a transponder. You can still get a ferry permit. You will need to get an ADS-B waver and a transponder waiver. I've never had any trouble getting those either.

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Posted

Before I ferried it, I would need see a gear swing, test the brakes, flight controls and trim. Pre oil the engine and verify it works and the prop cycles. I would verify the fuel system works on both tanks and doesn't leak (too much). At least one radio should work well. An A&P has to certify the plane is "Airworthy for flight", which is not defined...

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Posted
14 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

The CL ad was public and advertised 50 AMU so I don't think I'm spilling any secrets. The OP can share actual transaction price perhaps, but it seems like a good gamble for a motivated LOCAL buyer that doesn't need to pay someone to get it airworthy from a remote position. I hope it turns out great and gets in the air reasonably quickly.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk
 

We paid $45K for it, now the fun begins!  Or Pain as has been suggested....LOL

 

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