Turbo V band clamp AD

[thinwing]

that SB that mandatd the heat shield,rerouting the brake line and installation of "improved vband clamp"ie riveted is what ive found on my 2001 Bravo.The current Ad applys onlt to the large 3 in clamp ,turbo to exaust pipe.The 2.25 in clamps between both ends of wastegate are spot welded on my engine but not effected by this AD.Greg ,my maintainer describes a very different failure on these clamps...not at the spot weld but at the flange edges that clamp the two outlets together.Basically they start to crack there.....he has never seen a crack started at the weld as described in the AD.I make a point of a very good inspection every oil change at 25 hours...we replaced 1 smaller clamp when we did the wastegate due to flange crack location.Above pic shows a multisegmented spot welded clamp the flange area is clearly visable in photo as well as segment.

[Pinecone]

On 6/22/2023 at 6:56 PM, larryb said:

I checked the clamp on my Encore and it appears to be a single piece and not segmented. It is spot welded though.

 

The segments are in the inner portion that hold the two parts together.  You can see the gap in yours right above the nut.

[Alan Fox]

One of the questions on the IA exam , has to do with repl;acing spot welds , with rivets... It is specifically

NOT allowed...

[hubcap]

Any update on the availability of new clamps? 

[Pinecone]

My FBO got me one (a RAM version) for a good price.  There are some out there.

GAMI is working on a replacement clamp that will be an AMOC.  Put on thier clamp and the AD will no longer apply.

[hubcap]

10 hours ago, Pinecone said:

My FBO got me one (a RAM version) for a good price.  There are some out there.

GAMI is working on a replacement clamp that will be an AMOC.  Put on thier clamp and the AD will no longer apply.

I wonder how long will it take to get approval for something like that?

[Pinecone]

Who knows.  It only took 20 years for G100UL.

But the T34 spar AMOCs were pretty quick.

I have about 250 hours since FRM egine with all new stuff, and have a spare clamp, so I am good for a few years.

 

[Marc_B]

I'm trying to figure out the difference between V-band pn# 670105 vs #657198  vs # 653337.  I believe they all would be applicable for a Cont TSIO360, but unsure if one is spot welded and another is riveted, part superseded/retired?  Does anyone know the differences between these part numbers?

Edit: may have just found my answer...not sure where 657198 came from but was listed in replacement history on the Boeing webpage.  But the screen shot below is from Continental's supersedure page...and it looks like 670105 is a riveted V-band...and it superseded 653337 mentioned earlier in the thread...

[khedrei]

Wanted to revive this because I haven't been flying that much in the last 12 months and my next annual is due.  I kind of forgot about this AD, and my mechanic told me last annual that I had 50hrs from the summer, which I have not fulfilled.

I was also fortunate enough to dig up a logbook entry and parts invoice for my clamp #653332 which was replaced by the previous owner.  It gives me more time, because I'm only at 440 hrs currently, but not that much more more time.

Has anyone been able to source these parts, and how long did they wait for them?  I called several places but it seems they all get them from the same big suppliers.  Spruce gets them from Boeing, and they expect them in June and November.  I had actually called Boeing first and they have a June lead time.  I wonder where Boeing gets them from?  It's like one big happy incestuous parts family.

If I read the AD correctly, I fall under paragraph (i) (1) (i).  Once I hit 500 hours I need to remove from service or I can use paragraph (2) which says this:

(2) As an alternative to initially removing the v-band coupling from service as required by paragraph (i)(1) of this AD, you may perform the inspections required by paragraphs (k)(1) through (7) or (l) of this AD. Do the initial inspections at the time the v-band coupling would have been removed from service and thereafter at intervals not to exceed 6 months or 100 hours TIS, whichever occurs first, for a period not to exceed 2 years after the effective date of this AD. If the v-band coupling fails to meet any inspection criteria in paragraphs (k)(1) through (7) or (l) of this AD, it must be removed from service before further flight. Removing the v-band coupling from service and installing a new v-band coupling does not terminate the requirement to do these repetitive inspections

This appears to allow me to get to 500 hours, then do the inspection in paragraph (k) (which I won't list, but they are fairly straighforward) every 6 months or 100 hours (in my case 6 months will come first).  I can do that up until July 2025 which is 2 years from the date of the AD.

This whole thing seems pretty insane to me.  I assume there are several models of this clamp, but there are 40 000 aircraft affected by this AD.  The suppliers that I have contacted have given me lead times of 1-8 months from now.  The numbers they have ordered are also in the neighborhood of 10-200 units.  I am aware that the part numbers they are giving me are for my engine, but at these low numbers, it is going to take an awfully long time to get to the required 40 000 aircraft affected by this therby grounding a huge fleet of GA airplanes.

Does anyone have anymore information on this?  Is there any chance that the FAA comes up with another method of compliance until the market can get more parts in stock?  Perhaps there aren't as many people in the situation of being past the 500 hours as I might think... but this seems like a major issue.  How can they expect 40 000 planes to comply with this incredibly broad AD in such a short period of time?

I was clearly naive to think that waiting until this year would free up some backlog in the system.  I should have tried to order it last year.

Comments??

[takair]

4 hours ago, khedrei said:

Wanted to revive this because I haven't been flying that much in the last 12 months and my next annual is due.  I kind of forgot about this AD, and my mechanic told me last annual that I had 50hrs from the summer, which I have not fulfilled.

I was also fortunate enough to dig up a logbook entry and parts invoice for my clamp #653332 which was replaced by the previous owner.  It gives me more time, because I'm only at 440 hrs currently, but not that much more more time.

Has anyone been able to source these parts, and how long did they wait for them?  I called several places but it seems they all get them from the same big suppliers.  Spruce gets them from Boeing, and they expect them in June and November.  I had actually called Boeing first and they have a June lead time.  I wonder where Boeing gets them from?  It's like one big happy incestuous parts family.

If I read the AD correctly, I fall under paragraph (i) (1) (i).  Once I hit 500 hours I need to remove from service or I can use paragraph (2) which says this:

(2) As an alternative to initially removing the v-band coupling from service as required by paragraph (i)(1) of this AD, you may perform the inspections required by paragraphs (k)(1) through (7) or (l) of this AD. Do the initial inspections at the time the v-band coupling would have been removed from service and thereafter at intervals not to exceed 6 months or 100 hours TIS, whichever occurs first, for a period not to exceed 2 years after the effective date of this AD. If the v-band coupling fails to meet any inspection criteria in paragraphs (k)(1) through (7) or (l) of this AD, it must be removed from service before further flight. Removing the v-band coupling from service and installing a new v-band coupling does not terminate the requirement to do these repetitive inspections

This appears to allow me to get to 500 hours, then do the inspection in paragraph (k) (which I won't list, but they are fairly straighforward) every 6 months or 100 hours (in my case 6 months will come first).  I can do that up until July 2025 which is 2 years from the date of the AD.

This whole thing seems pretty insane to me.  I assume there are several models of this clamp, but there are 40 000 aircraft affected by this AD.  The suppliers that I have contacted have given me lead times of 1-8 months from now.  The numbers they have ordered are also in the neighborhood of 10-200 units.  I am aware that the part numbers they are giving me are for my engine, but at these low numbers, it is going to take an awfully long time to get to the required 40 000 aircraft affected by this therby grounding a huge fleet of GA airplanes.

Does anyone have anymore information on this?  Is there any chance that the FAA comes up with another method of compliance until the market can get more parts in stock?  Perhaps there aren't as many people in the situation of being past the 500 hours as I might think... but this seems like a major issue.  How can they expect 40 000 planes to comply with this incredibly broad AD in such a short period of time?

I was clearly naive to think that waiting until this year would free up some backlog in the system.  I should have tried to order it last year.

Comments??

We just did this for a friend on his T182.  He was over 500 hours so we were hopeful we could buy him more time via inspection since we could not source the clamp.  Unfortunately, his clamp had cracks.  Searched high and low and one friend finally found one through Textron, but….apparently they were only going to those with a Textron airplane that was AOG AND had an account.  My suggestion, get one on order, but do the inspection and hope it passes.  If you are not at 500 hours, there is a good chance it will pass.  

[LANCECASPER]

44 minutes ago, takair said:

 Unfortunately, his clamp had cracks.  

As much as I hate the clamp shortage, the AD may have just saved a life. You do not want that clamp giving way.

[exM20K]

FWIW Ijust got 2 for my TSIO550G from Spruce, easy, peasy.  I believe Eaton just blasted out a bunch to the parts distribution channels. Maybe Lycoming clamps are different and still on special? Price was $800 ish.

-dan

[khedrei]

Thanks for the replies so far.

ramaircraft

Boeing

Spruce

airpower

aviation unlimited

Southern Cross Aviation 

...as well as a couple others all have no current stock.  Spruce is working on something for me but she said likely not till November.  I should find out more from her in a couple days.  A friend of mine ordered 4 of them from 2 different places a couple months back and said he would sell me one if he gets them.  I am hoping mine passes inspection.  As long as it does I should be fine as long as an order comes in before July of 2025.

 

If anyone knows of anywhere that has stock, I am all ears.

Perhaps the continental people are just the unlucky ones...  I got a few prices around 425-600 USD.  Will cost me 1k CAD im sure by the time I get it here.

[hubcap]

I ordered one from Spruce shortly after the AD was issued….still waiting. They send an automated email occasionally to let me know that it is still on back order. Other than that, no joy.

[Sixstring2k]

On 12/22/2023 at 7:43 PM, Marc_B said:

I'm trying to figure out the difference between V-band pn# 670105 vs #657198  vs # 653337.  I believe they all would be applicable for a Cont TSIO360, but unsure if one is spot welded and another is riveted, part superseded/retired?  Does anyone know the differences between these part numbers?

Edit: may have just found my answer...not sure where 657198 came from but was listed in replacement history on the Boeing webpage.  But the screen shot below is from Continental's supersedure page...and it looks like 670105 is a riveted V-band...and it superseded 653337 mentioned earlier in the thread...

Just making sure I am reading this correctly (if wrong please correct me)  and that this hopefully helps someone, the clamp that should be put in place and complies with the AD is 670105?  Or at least gets someone flying again for 500 hrs. If so air power has them available as of this morning. 
https://www.airpowerinc.com/670105

[Greg Ellis]

10 minutes ago, Sixstring2k said:

Just making sure I am reading this correctly (if wrong please correct me)  and that this hopefully helps someone, the clamp that should be put in place and complies with the AD is 670105?  Or at least gets someone flying again for 500 hrs. If so air power has them available as of this morning. 
https://www.airpowerinc.com/670105

It says it is on backorder on their website.

[LANCECASPER]

50 minutes ago, Sixstring2k said:

Just making sure I am reading this correctly (if wrong please correct me)  and that this hopefully helps someone, the clamp that should be put in place and complies with the AD is 670105?  Or at least gets someone flying again for 500 hrs. If so air power has them available as of this morning. 
https://www.airpowerinc.com/670105

What model Mooney do you have?

[dkkim73]

[dkkim73]

FWIW 670105 was transiently in stock at Aircraft Spruce. *If* that's right for your Mooney, keep searching. @LANCECASPER's point is well-taken, make sure the model #... (I reached out to some Acclaim bros here on Mooneyspace).

HTH
D

[Sixstring2k]

8 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

What model Mooney do you have?

I do not have a Mooney at this time, I was just looking up the part number in this old post because I am interested in maybe some day getting on K model and this V band issue is on my mind as a prospective owner. When I saw AirPower website I am pretty it didn’t say back order, I didn’t call them directly just saw was available and this is the only site I frequent whose owners have tsio 360 engines so I posted here. 
 

[Pinecone]

According to my parts manual, the proper one for my 252 is the spot welded clamp.

GAMI is working on a replacement for both riveted and spot welded that will not need periodic change or inspection.

[hubcap]

12 hours ago, Pinecone said:

According to my parts manual, the proper one for my 252 is the spot welded clamp.

GAMI is working on a replacement for both riveted and spot welded that will not need periodic change or inspection.

Do you have an ETA?

[Pinecone]

Supposedly their end is done. Waiting on FAA approval

[khedrei]

9 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Supposedly their end is done. Waiting on FAA approval

So when pigs join us in the sky...

Or by themselves cause we are all grounded.

[A64Pilot]

On 4/20/2024 at 5:54 PM, khedrei said:

So when pigs join us in the sky...

Or by themselves cause we are all grounded.

It depends completely on if someone in the FAA gets motivated or not, sometimes they do, many are pretty good people actually, it’s the one bad apple that gives them the bad name.

I learned something that shocked me when I was a manufacturer though, and that’s that the FAA has 90 days to issue an Emergency AD, seemed like a long time for an Emergency to me.

Oh, and type clubs, AOPA etc really can expedite the process, squeaky wheel I guess.