Warm starts for IO360

[ArtVandelay]

Say you start the engine to taxi to the fuel pump, engine runs for less a minute. After refueling (5+ minutes), on restart do you use cold start method or hot start method or something else?

[redbaron1982]

I used cold start for that.

[MikeOH]

After the initial cold start procedure all subsequent starts if within a couple of hours I use the Don Maxwell method:

Throttle left where it was at shutdown(around 1000 rpm), mixture at ICO, start cranking and slowly advance mixture until start.

Caveat: I’ve only done this for OAT>60F but it’s always worked well for me.

[Ragsf15e]

I also use hot start technique after initial start.  If it doesn’t start, you can always do a cold start.  If you do a cold start first (prime it), you can’t take that back.

[PT20J]

I have found the following to work reliably within 30 minutes after shutdown. Open throttle about 1/4” (push-pull control). Boost pump off. Mixture in ICO. Crank and if it doesn’t fire immediately, advance mixture slowly until it fires, then full rich and adjust throttle for 1000 -1200 rpm. If this doesn’t work, or if the airplane has been sitting longer, use the cold start procedure. Often when it won’t hot start, it’s because the throttle isn’t open enough. 

Skip

[PeteMc]

Friend was having issues and asked our mechanic (Air Mods & Repair, NJ).  He said to increase the RPMs to (I think) 1200 and then pull the mixture.  My friend that constantly had problems in the summer never had another issue.

Your mileage... er... startage may vary.

 

[toto]

I always use the hot start procedure in this scenario. The Maxwell method agrees with the flight manual and is dead simple. 
 

 

[Shadrach]

Hot start…as in I just turn the ignition key with the mixture and throttle set where they were before shutdown. 
You can always add more fuel if needed. Taking it away is a more challenging endeavor. 

[larrynimmo]

If all else fails…and decide this very quickly…do a flooded engine start procedure….

 

full throttle no fuel….then start adding fuel and it will start.

 

to quote Don Maxwell….”It’s a Lycomming, it’s flooded”

[Shadrach]

4 hours ago, larrynimmo said:

If all else fails…and decide this very quickly…do a flooded engine start procedure….

 

full throttle no fuel….then start adding fuel and it will start.

 

to quote Don Maxwell….”It’s a Lycomming, it’s flooded”

I’m not sure with what context Don was speaking when he made that quote, but I sense you’ve taken it out of context. Every injected Lycoming “floods” or “primes” itself after shut down. This is a byproduct of having injector lines that run  atop of the engine where they absorb heat after shutdown. The fuel in the lines expands and is expelled into the manifold. This is why we don’t prime for hot starts. Intentionally flooding a hot (or cold) engine is a bad idea. I’ve heard a handful of pilots who have struggled with hot starts advocate “flooding the engine” so that at least the operator is dealing with a known condition. I think that it’s bad SOP. Engine compartment fires from flooded starts are rare but they do happen (I’ve seen three). 
I have a long and distinguished list of stupid things I’ve done over the years…I don’t wish to add “setting airplane on fire by intentionally flooding the engine”.

[Bartman]

If the engine is just “warm” from taxi to the fuel pump I have never had a problem starting. Don’t touch anything and just start cranking and always starts quickly. 
 

If it is truly a heat soaked engine I’m with @larrynimmo and treat it as a just open the throttle all the way and leave the mixture at cutoff, but don’t touch the mixture. You have to be ready to bring the throttle to idle at the first sign of ignition and quickly move the hand to the mixture, but it always works. 

[ArtVandelay]

On a hot start I do the don’t touch anything, just start it method, works 99% of the time.

On a cold start I set the throttle to 1/4”, run the fuel pump for 5 seconds, more if it’s colder, if near freezing I pump for 10 seconds. My AP told me you can’t flood a Lycoming on a cold start.

But if I run engine for a minute, cylinder temperatures only get up to about 120°, oil still near ambient temperature, hence the question.

[Fly Boomer]

15 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Say you start the engine to taxi to the fuel pump, engine runs for less a minute. After refueling (5+ minutes), on restart do you use cold start method or hot start method or something else?

One thing to add to what @Ragsf15e said is advice (don't remember whose) that if the OAT is relatively high, you are more likely to over prime, and if the OAT is relatively low, you are likely to under prime.

[redbaron1982]

A bit off-topic but still related to starting the engine "warm". So far I have had no problems at all starting my IO 360, cold, warm, or whatever, except for... restarting after approx 30 minutes after shutdown when the engine is hot (like after a 2 hours flight hot).

The first time I didn't have many issues starting, but the FP was quite erratic at the beginning. Had to turn on the boost pump to stabilize it and after like 15 seconds it would be back to normal with the fuel pump off.

The second time I had this issue I had a really hard time starting the engine.

I assume this was due to vapor lock, and I'm not sure what's the best way to start when vapor lock happens. I would assume running the fuel pump with full rich to have fresh / liquid state fuel in all the fuel lines, but my concern is when to stop and not flood the engine.

[Fly Boomer]

3 minutes ago, redbaron1982 said:

I would assume running the fuel pump with full rich to have fresh / liquid state fuel in all the fuel lines, but my concern is when to stop and not flood the engine.

That works on Continental. but is less effective on Lycoming.  On a Continental, you can run the boost pump with the mixture at ICO, and cool fuel is recirculated through the fuel lines.  As soon as the mixture comes off ICO, you are pumping fuel into the engine.

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, redbaron1982 said:

A bit off-topic but still related to starting the engine "warm". So far I have had no problems at all starting my IO 360, cold, warm, or whatever, except for... restarting after approx 30 minutes after shutdown when the engine is hot (like after a 2 hours flight hot).

The first time I didn't have many issues starting, but the FP was quite erratic at the beginning. Had to turn on the boost pump to stabilize it and after like 15 seconds it would be back to normal with the fuel pump off.

The second time I had this issue I had a really hard time starting the engine.

I assume this was due to vapor lock, and I'm not sure what's the best way to start when vapor lock happens. I would assume running the fuel pump with full rich to have fresh / liquid state fuel in all the fuel lines, but my concern is when to stop and not flood the engine.

I do "warm starts" where I just run the boost pump a second or two, maybe three, if it's somewhere not quite in hot start territory but not really cold, either.    If it won't hot start that usually gets it going.

[RobertGary1]

First thing to do is ensure you don't have the old original slow bendix starter. The new starters are so much faster that starting is far, far easier. Back in the day these planes were very hard to warm start.

 

[carusoam]

Depends on how you shut the engine down… 

If you set the rpms to 1k… then pull the mixture…

The engine runs for a few seconds until the fuel is drained from the lines…

To restart… put the fuel back…

 

With an IO550… putting the fuel back takes about a second or two of running the fuel pump… until the FF gauge registers…

Then hit the starter as usual…

A couple of blades go by, and she fires right up…

It isn’t a hot start… no fuel boiling…

It isn’t a cold start… no prime required…

But, it does require fuel to start… re-fill the lines.

 

Best regards,

-a-

[Ryan ORL]

I tried all the various incantations and spells mentioned above for hot starting, and I had new mags and fine wire plugs, etc.  I mostly used the "Maxwell method" in the video above.  It works well, about 95% of the time.  Of course, in the other 5% of times where something goes wrong and you don't get it first try, then you're in the 'unknown' state and end up fussing with it for a while.

Then I bought a SlickStart and have never thought or worried about any of this ever again.  It fires right up, every single time, hot or cold.  Best money I've ever spent on my plane.

[jaylw314]

FWIW on warm/hot starts, I don't give it full mixture, I only give it about half mixture and it seems to start fine, even in 95 degree summers.  Probably not a real benefit to doing that other than economy of motion, but it puts in perspective how easy it should be.

[toto]

3 hours ago, Ryan ORL said:

I tried all the various incantations and spells mentioned above for hot starting, and I had new mags and fine wire plugs, etc.  I mostly used the "Maxwell method" in the video above.  It works well, about 95% of the time.  Of course, in the other 5% of times where something goes wrong and you don't get it first try, then you're in the 'unknown' state and end up fussing with it for a while.

Then I bought a SlickStart and have never thought or worried about any of this ever again.  It fires right up, every single time, hot or cold.  Best money I've ever spent on my plane.

Never heard of the SlickStart before your post - sounds like it's not available for the Bendix dual mag? Does your J have separate mags?

[A64Pilot]

On 5/15/2023 at 11:23 PM, Shadrach said:

Hot start…as in I just turn the ignition key with the mixture and throttle set where they were before shutdown. 
You can always add more fuel if needed. Taking it away is a more challenging endeavor. 

I believe that’s what I do, and it works, full rich, throttle open just a bit and hit the starter, she cranks right up. Don’t touch boost.

Now if It was shut down hot and only off for 15 min or so, then start at ICO

I just can’t bring myself to call it a hot start

[PT20J]

The big radial engines were notoriously difficult to start when cold. Sometimes during priming they would get flooded and sometimes they were too lean. Also, the pressure carbs didn't meter fuel accurately at cranking speeds. Then the "controlled quantity" start procedure was developed. The idea was to start from a known state of being too lean and then gradually add fuel until the mixture was right and it would start.

That same theory works with hot/warm fuel injected Lycomings. Open the throttle enough so it gets some air (a lot of hot start problems come from not having the throttle open enough) and leave the mixture in ICO. Now crank and if it doesn't light off on whatever fuel remains in the injector lines, just slowly move the mixture control toward rich while cranking. It's got air; it didn't start immediately so you know it doesn't have enough fuel; advancing the mixture control adds fuel and when you get to the right amount it will start. Of course, all this assumes that your ignition system is in good condition.

Skip

[Shadrach]

20 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

I believe that’s what I do, and it works, full rich, throttle open just a bit and hit the starter, she cranks right up. Don’t touch boost.

Now if It was shut down hot and only off for 15 min or so, then start at ICO

I just can’t bring myself to call it a hot start

I always start at ICO. Difference between hot and cold is to prime or not to prime. 

Interesting fact, injected Lycomings will start in cool weather without the boost pump. Crack throttle, full rich and crank.

[Ryan ORL]

On 5/19/2023 at 1:26 PM, toto said:

Never heard of the SlickStart before your post - sounds like it's not available for the Bendix dual mag? Does your J have separate mags?

Yes, I have the A3B6 non-D.  Forgot it may not be available for the dual.