Oil change methods

[A64Pilot]

14 hours ago, Ibra said:

Sir, I am stuck on this one, any hints? we got 3 blades 

Remove one.

[kris_adams]

15 hours ago, Ibra said:

Has anyone ever ever managed to remove oil filtre without dropping anything and making huge mess? unless you do it in zero gravity  or as mentioned above by letting it drain for day or two?

On removing cowling, I had my 3 year old kid to help by holding it against a folding chair, my wife sent me this picture after he went to nursery the next day, they were asking what is this? 

 

 

That is so funny...I call it "making memories."  Reminds me when I brought my son an unannounced dirt bike home when he was around the same age.

[N201MKTurbo]

15 hours ago, Ibra said:

Has anyone ever ever managed to remove oil filtre without dropping anything and making huge mess? unless you do it in zero gravity  or as mentioned above by letting it drain for day or two?

On removing cowling, I had my 3 year old kid to help by holding it against a folding chair, my wife sent me this picture after he went to nursery the next day, they were asking what is this? 

 

That's what my fingernails always looked like when I was a kid. What's the problem?

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

I’ve not seen it either, and on my cars etc have adopted an OCI of 10,000 miles and maybe once a year, same with the bike and lawnmower, running Shell Rotella 5W-40 Diesel oil.

Wife Inherited a 1923 Ford Model-T that had very dirty oil in it that has been there I’m pretty sure since before WWII. It was always stored covered and I had its head off etc to replace valves and saw no evidence of etching on the cam etc that you might expect to see if there was even a slightly corrosive environment over so many years. The 5 ton truck I drove as an Enlisted soldier for four years never had its oil changed in those four years, because ad the operator I woukd have been the one to change it.

I believe for those that do Oil Analysis the the TBN and TAN will tell the tale.

Many years ago, at least 40 because that’s when I joined, the US Army adopted the strategy of only changing oil on vehicles when SOAP analysis indicated it and dropped the calendar interval, and at least when I Retired in 03 were still doing it that way, I have no idea when they started, but the policy was in place when I joined in 82 so before then.

Doing so has saved the taxpayer no telling how much money and supposedly the environment, I say supposedly because 100% of Army oil is recycled

However the airplane just costs so much and the possible repercussions so severe that I’m reticent to completely drop the calendar interval and adopt an hour interval, but am seriously considering going to 25 hours OCI as it just looks too black if I let it go further. I don’t do analysis, if I did then I’d be more comfortable.

I am not against oil analysis, just think it’s being mis-used and not marketed for what it is, it’s absolute perfect to analyze your oil, tell you exactly what condition the oil is in, how dirty, if there is fuel dilution etc., but many are using it an an engine analysis, and I don’t think that’s what it’s best use is. 

Your experience mirrors mine with regard to internals. I’ve opened aircooled motorcycle with the cylinders ceased due to corrosion only to find the bottom end was perfectly serviceable after decades sitting with dirty black oil.

My oil is typically changed between 30 and 50 hours depending on where I am. I’m not going to get an oil change away from home unless there are very special circumstances. 

Many years ago I came out to the airport  with a trip planned. Oil level was fine but but I calculated the oil had been in service >90 hours tach time and 5 months. My partner was courting a girl about 2.5 hour away and had been visiting almost every weekend. No I’ll negative effect on the engine….My temper on the other hand.

[Will.iam]

On 5/8/2023 at 12:46 PM, T. Peterson said:

Don’t you have a wife?

Man show me a wife that is out in the hanger and helping to lower a cowl and I will show you my unicorn that farts rainbows as both happen with about the same frequency.

[mike_elliott]

On 5/9/2023 at 6:29 PM, Ibra said:

Has anyone ever ever managed to remove oil filtre without dropping anything and making huge mess? unless you do it in zero gravity  or as mentioned above by letting it drain for day or two?

On your J, get a 3' long piece of 1" alum angle. Place one end under the filter where it screws on to the adapter. Safety tie the angle sloping downward to one of the copilot side camloc receptacles for the cowl.  Place a bucket under the end to catch the draining oil. Dont do this on the ramp or in the wind, but that goes without saying i would hope. Now loosen the filter until it starts to drain. To help expediate the process, a small vent hole can be punched into the top of the filter.

For added "protection" you can get one of your GF's (or boyfriends gawd who knows anymore) sanitary napkins and put it under the filter to catch any possible leakage. Thats what they are designed to do heh? 

[MikeOH]

I use a plastic ziplock bag and don’t spill a drop. The trick is to make sure the edge of the bag is behind the filter mounting flange and pull the bag up continuously with your free hand so  that the bag edge never drops away from the flange while unscrewing the filter with the other hand. The hardest part is turning the filter ‘through’ the bag because the oil in the bag makes getting a grip more difficult.

[Shadrach]

On 5/9/2023 at 6:29 PM, Ibra said:

Has anyone ever ever managed to remove oil filtre without dropping anything and making huge mess? unless you do it in zero gravity  or as mentioned above by letting it drain for day or two?

On removing cowling, I had my 3 year old kid to help by holding it against a folding chair, my wife sent me this picture after he went to nursery the next day, they were asking what is this? 

 

My kids help around the plane as well. I do keep them away from used engine oil,exhaust deposits etc… My personal lead levels have been tested and are within the acceptable levels for an adult. Nevertheless, I know my exposure came from being careless in my handling of used oil and fuel.  

[201Mooniac]

12 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Man show me a wife that is out in the hanger and helping to lower a cowl and I will show you my unicorn that farts rainbows as both happen with about the same frequency.

My wife always comes out to the airport with me when I'm workingo n the plane so she can watch take-offs and landings.  She is always willing to help when I need some extra hands.  Maybe not as rare as you think.

[MikeOH]

Yeah, no problem with my wife helping me out. Last weekend she helped me fill potholes in the hangar floor with asphalt!

[Tim-37419]

47 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

Yeah, no problem with my wife helping me out. Last weekend she helped me fill potholes in the hangar floor with asphalt!

 

4 hours ago, 201Mooniac said:

My wife always comes out to the airport with me when I'm workingo n the plane so she can watch take-offs and landings.  She is always willing to help when I need some extra hands.  Maybe not as rare as you think.

 

you guys got it made! My wife used to be in charge of tuning the radio, switching the tanks and the heat. She quiet quit the first two and now that it's getting warm I will probably fire her from the 3rd task since I don't want to bake in the cockpit. 

[A64Pilot]

6 hours ago, Shadrach said:

My kids help around the plane as well. I do keep them away from used engine oil,exhaust deposits etc… My personal lead levels have been tested and are within the acceptable levels for an adult. Nevertheless, I know my exposure came from being careless in my handling of used oil and fuel.  

Back in the day, and still to some extent the most common solvent in a Mechanics shop was Avgas, bare handed mechanics washed parts in leaded fuel every day for decades, back then the lead level in fuel was twice what it is today, No mechanic wore gloves, that’s a relatively recent thing, and I’ve never heard of anyone get lead poisoning, not once.

Not saying their exposure was healthy, but it never caused any harm that was diagnosed.

Then take Ag pilots, they work constantly around some pretty powerful chemical poisons and Lord knows what, every pass they make, they are flying through the chemicals dispensed last pass. Round up one that the Ambulance chasing lawyers advertise so much is VERY common, many, many crops are defoliated prior to harvest, cotton for one and most often by Round up, many crop seeds are advertised to be “Round-up ready” They have been genetically modified to be.

So surely very long term Ag pilots Cancer rate must be much higher than say office workers.

The NAAA https://www.agaviation.org has conducted several surveys over the years to determine the Cancer rate in pilots to determine which chemicals etc pose more hazards than others, which protective equipment should be worn etc., only to find that the Cancer rate for Ag pilots mirrors the general population, there isn’t a difference.

I’m not saying that exposure to toxins and chemicals in general isn’t bad or that precautions shouldn’t be taken, they should, but I do wonder if it’s possible that exposure to them just might not be as bad as we have been recently led to believe.

[jaylw314]

57 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Back in the day, and still to some extent the most common solvent in a Mechanics shop was Avgas, bare handed mechanics washed parts in leaded fuel every day for decades, back then the lead level in fuel was twice what it is today, No mechanic wore gloves, that’s a relatively recent thing, and I’ve never heard of anyone get lead poisoning, not once.

Not saying their exposure was healthy, but it never caused any harm that was diagnosed.

That's because we all got dumber at the same time 

[jaylw314]

8 hours ago, MikeOH said:

I use a plastic ziplock bag and don’t spill a drop. The trick is to make sure the edge of the bag is behind the filter mounting flange and pull the bag up continuously with your free hand so  that the bag edge never drops away from the flange while unscrewing the filter with the other hand. The hardest part is turning the filter ‘through’ the bag because the oil in the bag makes getting a grip more difficult.

A couple loops of masking tape stuck to the engine mount bars can hold the bag up so you have an extra free hand.

[Skates97]

8 hours ago, MikeOH said:

I use a plastic ziplock bag and don’t spill a drop. The trick is to make sure the edge of the bag is behind the filter mounting flange and pull the bag up continuously with your free hand so  that the bag edge never drops away from the flange while unscrewing the filter with the other hand. The hardest part is turning the filter ‘through’ the bag because the oil in the bag makes getting a grip more difficult.

I used to do the same thing. I changed procedure. I will stuff a couple old rags under it up against the mount. Remove the entire piece of safety wire to have that out of the way, loosen it up with the wrench and then spin it off quickly and let it fall into my hand. If I spin it quickly it keeps most of the oil from running down and I end up with a few spots of oil on the rag.

Edit: I should add that this is after letting the oil drain so most of the oil is out of the filter.

This is what they end up looking like.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Skates97

[A64Pilot]

44 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

That's because we all got dumber at the same time 

That may be, but it sure seems that kids today seem to be more symptomatic of over exposure to something.

60 years ago milk or peanuts never killed anyone, nobody ever heard of ADD/HD, Asthma was very rare pretty much unheard of in Children, none of my friends were diabetic and honestly a whole myriad of other things.

Why, what’s different? I can’t answer that. Sure I have theories but they are baseless really.

It seems even with all the attention etc., that in fact Modern Society is much worse than back in the day, Recycling and being “green” for example, we were way more green back then, just didn’t know it, and even with all the bad chemicals, we were healthier, exception being tobacco I guess.

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Back in the day, and still to some extent the most common solvent in a Mechanics shop was Avgas, bare handed mechanics washed parts in leaded fuel every day for decades, back then the lead level in fuel was twice what it is today, No mechanic wore gloves, that’s a relatively recent thing, and I’ve never heard of anyone get lead poisoning, not once.

Not saying their exposure was healthy, but it never caused any harm that was diagnosed.

Then take Ag pilots, they work constantly around some pretty powerful chemical poisons and Lord knows what, every pass they make, they are flying through the chemicals dispensed last pass. Round up one that the Ambulance chasing lawyers advertise so much is VERY common, many, many crops are defoliated prior to harvest, cotton for one and most often by Round up, many crop seeds are advertised to be “Round-up ready” They have been genetically modified to be.

So surely very long term Ag pilots Cancer rate must be much higher than say office workers.

The NAAA https://www.agaviation.org has conducted several surveys over the years to determine the Cancer rate in pilots to determine which chemicals etc pose more hazards than others, which protective equipment should be worn etc., only to find that the Cancer rate for Ag pilots mirrors the general population, there isn’t a difference.

I’m not saying that exposure to toxins and chemicals in general isn’t bad or that precautions shouldn’t be taken, they should, but I do wonder if it’s possible that exposure to them just might not be as bad as we have been recently led to believe.

Recent Study indicates that the elimination of leaded auto fuel corresponded with a six point increase in IQ in areas where it was banned.

Lead poisoning isn’t buying everything. It’s an accumulation. Given your exposure, you should have your lead levels checked just to see. I didn’t have any symptoms. I simply thought back on all the stupid things that I’ve done over the years with leaded fuel, I decided to see if there was any in my system. Sure enough there was.  I want dropped a sump valve into a 5 gallon bucket of our gas. I reached in and grabbed it. I regretted it afterwards. Was clear that my skin was not happy about it..

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, Skates97 said:

I used to do the same thing. I changed procedure. I will stuff a couple old rags under it up against the mount. Remove the entire piece of safety wire to have that out of the way, loosen it up with the wrench and then spin it off quickly and let it fall into my hand. If I spin it quickly it keeps most of the oil from running down and I end up with a few spots of oil on the rag.

Edit: I should add that this is after letting the oil drain so most of the oil is out of the filter.

This is what they end up looking like.

Hmm, you must live right!  The ONE time I tried that...I spent the next hour cleaning up the mess; my white rags were soaked black!

Likely I wasn't patient enough to let the oil drain, but with the filter mounted horizontally I don't quite see how the oil drains out completely?

My method seems to work flawlessly so I'm going to stick with it

[Shadrach]

8 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

One of my RV buddies just recommended this tool to me.  I haven’t tried it yet, but it looks promising.  It is basically a punch that you blow compressed air in to to fully drain the filter.   Will report back.

Oil is cheap insurance as far as I am concerned.   I change mine and the filter every 25 to 30 hours. 

No tool needed. Any punch will work. I’ve always been a little sketched by the idea of putting high pressure, reverse flow air through the filter media. Probably doesn’t matter.  I find the if I let it drain for a day or more, the mess is reduced significantly.

[Pinecone]

15 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Recent Study indicates that the elimination of leaded auto fuel corresponded with a six point increase in IQ in areas where it was banned.

Lead poisoning isn’t buying everything. It’s an accumulation. Given your exposure, you should have your lead levels checked just to see. I didn’t have any symptoms. I simply thought back on all the stupid things that I’ve done over the years with leaded fuel, I decided to see if there was any in my system. Sure enough there was.  I want dropped a sump valve into a 5 gallon bucket of our gas. I reached in and grabbed it. I regretted it afterwards. Was clear that my skin was not happy about it..

The good news is, lead is excreted from the body over time.

[tgardnerh]

On 5/8/2023 at 11:26 AM, Shadrach said:

I am skeptical that calendar time matters as much as we've been led to believe.

I asked Blackstone their opinion on this after my car went ~18 months before getting due for an oil change, and they told me in no uncertain terms that mileage matters, months do not.

I believed them, but also the car is only worth 5 AMU, so the stakes are lower.

[Shadrach]

22 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

The good news is, lead is excreted from the body over time.

That makes me wonder where mine peaked. If mine were not in the danger zone, but my primary care doc still raised his eyebrow at the level. I’ve been pretty careful with regards to exposure for at least the last decade

[Pinecone]

In the bad old days, when lead miners would get serious health effects, they would take them out of the mines, then walk around in a room with heat lamps to sweat out the lead, and once they got "better" they would go back to work in the mines.

There is likely a level below which is it no longer excreted.  But lead issues are primarily in developing children, not old people. ::D

 

[Shadrach]

5 minutes ago, tgardnerh said:

I asked Blackstone their opinion on this after my car went ~18 months before getting due for an oil change, and they told me in no uncertain terms that mileage matters, months do not.

I believed them, but also the car is only worth 5 AMU, so the stakes are lower.

I would certainly say that’s true with a car running modern synthetic oil with a sophisticated additive package. While I’ve seen no evidence that extended calendar intervals adversely affect airplanes. I wouldn’t make the case using a modern, water cooled, automotive example.

[A64Pilot]

Decades ago (1988 first year) General Motors instituted GMOLS, or GM oil life system, way it works is you start with some number and every significant event some number is decremented, like a cold start for example, when the number reaches zero the change oil light comes on. I’m pretty sure GM was first.

It can go on average somewhere between 3 and 10 thousand miles, year 2000 and newer vehicles can be up to 15,000 miles between changes. Estimates are that it’s saved hundreds of millions of gallons of oil, and Lord knows how much money.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/77/gm's-oil-life-system-improves-timing-of-oil-change

Our aircraft are actually very easy on oil, our bottom ends are overbuilt and we turn low RPM and don’t even come close to overheating oil, so one could assume our oil should last a very long time.

However as we are air cooled and have very sloppy tolerances our normal blow-by compared to the automotive world is excessive, blow-by garbages up the oil, then combine that with lead and our oil change intervals aren’t driven by oil break down at all, they are driven by how much garbage accumulates in the oil, we change oil not because it’s worn out or broken down, we change oil to get the garbage out.

If we had very fine bypass oil filters I’m sure we could extend oil changes dramatically, but we don’t.