Carpet: to glue or not to glue?

[AndreiC]

I am redoing the interior of my 1970 M20E, and ordered a carpet kit from Airtex. I was wondering what other people's opinions are about whether to glue down the carpets to the floor (in some distant past there was carpet glued down on the floor, but at some time prior to my ownership it was removed; right now there is basically bare metal floor). Or to use velcro to keep it down, but allow for the possibility to remove it for inspections. This question seems particularly pertinent for the center piece carpet, which goes around the emergency gear extension mechanism and the gear down visual indicator.

Any opinions?

[Jpravi8tor]

I have spent many hours removing glue from floor boards that had been poorly glued down.

I vote velcro it may not last as long but dammnit its easily replaced

[N201MKTurbo]

I wouldn’t glue them. I would put a couple of screws to hold them in place. 
There are more maintenance tasks that require removing the carpets than you would think. 
Also, if the carpets get dirty, they are a lot easier to clean if you take them out. 
And, if you change carpets, cleaning up the glue residue is a horrible job.

[PT20J]

Byron Rogers @jetdriven installed his with snaps for easy removal. 

Bruce Jaegar's practice was to use lots of Velcro.

I figured it was unlikely I'd need to remove the carpet again anytime soon so I just bought a can of spray glue and applied a light coat and glued it down. I didn't bother cleaning up the original glue because I didn't see any point in cleaning off glue and then putting it back. But, mine was factory original and they didn't go wild with the glue. I used a can of spray upholstery glue from an automotive store with fan spray pattern and it was easy to put a light coat on where I wanted it without making a mess. The Airtex carpet has a foam backing and you will ruin it if you have to remove it for some reason, though, so if you think you are going to need to remove the carpet in the future, you should use another method.

Skip

[Boilermonkey]

Don't use glue. It only cause you or the next owner to curse!  A little bit of velcro is fine, I'll also like the idea of using a few sheet metal screws...just be conscious of what's underneath.

[A64Pilot]

Mine is just laid in there and does fine, it moves a little sometimes but is easy to move back. Don’t glue it, you will likely never get all the glue off. My luck if I used screws I’d find a fuel line or a wire that would cause something to work intermittently, or short and catch fire.

My carpet has a stiff backing of some kind and foam padding, it could be original, not sure.

[KSMooniac]

Snaps! Two in the front, two in the back.

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[N201MKTurbo]

15 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Mine is just laid in there and does fine, it moves a little sometimes but is easy to move back. Don’t glue it, you will likely never get all the glue off. My luck if I used screws I’d find a fuel line or a wire that would cause something to work intermittently, or short and catch fire.

My carpet has a stiff backing of some kind and foam padding, it could be original, not sure.

You got to pull the belly and make sure your screw are going in a good place. But you know that.

[gwav8or]

Snaps! Two in the front, two in the back.

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I’m curious what would be used to secure the snaps to the floor? I like the idea.


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[KSMooniac]

I bought a kit from Amazon (i think) that had snaps and the tool to set them into the carpet. The "base" for the snap has a screw thread to go into the floor... As mentioned above make sure you have a clear path first!

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[0TreeLemur]

In my experience a little velcro goes a long way.

[pirate]

Over the past 25 years working on large biz jet interiors, all use velcro sparingly as do I with my Mooney. 
I would never glue a carpet down. 

[201Steve]

Velcro. Glue sounds crazy with all the other, much more sensible options. 

[DCarlton]

I used double stick carpet tape.  It worked well enough for years.  

[RLCarter]

Snaps…. Easily removed to clean….. you can get colored snaps that blend in

[ArtVandelay]

Why attach the the carpet at all? If properly fitted, it shouldn’t moved much unless you drag your feet getting in and out.

[jetdriven]

The Velcro glue gets sticky in the heat and pulls loose. Plus the carpet shifts around whenever it's hot because the Velcro glue doesn't hold all that well. But you can screw these into the floor and then they make a complementary stud snap that peens into the carpet and then you can remove it and wash it or take it home . 
Pull the belly  panels and have a helper help you locate the snaps but we put 4 under the front of the passenger seat, 2 under the pilot seat, and two at the rear for each piece. Also 1  between each rudder pedal set. 
https://www.sailrite.com/Snap-Fastener-Machine-Screw-3-8-8-32-Nickel-Plated-Key-H

[carusoam]

My M20C used screws in the given holes…

There were those fancy speed nuts on the other side… holding the screws in place…

Once the speed nuts got lost, it takes an annual to have access to put them back…

No fasteners… people slide around getting in and out of the plane…

I believe the LBs use Velcro… and a plane cover to keep things from melting inside…

Snaps would make a great method of holding carpets in place as well…

Access to the underside of the floor is important to hold the fasteners in place…

You can practice with 3M Velcro for the automotive industry…

You can never unglue the glue you spread all over the place

Expect to want to pull the carpet up… the first time it gets wet by something… soda, fuel leak, rain water…. Stuff happens.

PP thoughts only…

Best regards,

-a-

[Jpravi8tor]

I typically place screws strategically in the velcro to assist in keeping the velcro in place on the aluminum, also a few well-placed stitches on the carpet side hold the pieces in place. I like the idea of using a rivnut instead of pk screws as the holes get larger by the year.

[Greg Ellis]

Mine has velcro.  I do not know what actual Brand velcro it is but I wish I did (put in before I owned the airplane).  It is about 20 years old or so and is still sticking just fine even in the Texas heat but the velcro grips better than any velcro product I have ever used.  It takes quite a bit of strength to get the carpet out.

[M20F-1968]

I bought some (3M I think) Velco and a 3M product to apply to the carpet and floor as a prep to make the velcro stick better.  It stays put and you have to work a bit to get it off.  I think I bought both on Amazon.  I can get the velcro info as it came on a large spool.  It think I have the spar can as well in you need a name.

John Breda

[PT20J]

I needed to replace the gear relays in my M20J (the up relay hung up and I decided to replace both since they are 30 years old). They are bolted through the floor and so I needed to remove the carpet which as I said earlier in this thread I had glued down. It was easy to remove using a putty knife to gently separate the carpet from the floor. It didn't even damage the foam backing on the Airtex carpet. I think the problem most people have with glue is that the use too much of it. All you need is enough to tack the carpet down. I used 3M automotive headliner and fabric adhesive in a spray can and just applied a light coat. I noticed when I removed the original carpet some years back that Mooney had applied the glue sparingly.

[Fly Boomer]

10 hours ago, PT20J said:

I needed to replace the gear relays in my M20J (the up relay hung up and I decided to replace both since they are 30 years old). They are bolted through the floor and so I needed to remove the carpet which as I said earlier in this thread I had glued down. It was easy to remove using a putty knife to gently separate the carpet from the floor. It didn't even damage the foam backing on the Airtex carpet. I think the problem most people have with glue is that the use too much of it. All you need is enough to tack the carpet down. I used 3M automotive headliner and fabric adhesive in a spray can and just applied a light coat. I noticed when I removed the original carpet some years back that Mooney had applied the glue sparingly.

What is the advantage of glue over snaps, Velcro, or something else?

[PT20J]

47 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

What is the advantage of glue over snaps, Velcro, or something else?

Ease of installation and security of the installed carpet.

Bruce Jaegar told me it took him several attempts to figure out how to do the velcro. It required completely removing all the glue (lots of work) so that the velcro could adhere to a smooth metal surface. Also you have to get the right professional strength stuff as standard velcro adhesive softens in the heat.

Snaps are a better solution, but you have to be very careful where you locate them so as to not interfere with something underneath. It’s a two person job. It you don’t use enough snaps, the carpet can bunch or wrinkle. For me, it just didn’t seem worth the work, especially since I would have wanted to remove all the old glue if the new carpet was removable.

Skip

[Fly Boomer]

4 hours ago, PT20J said:

Ease of installation and security of the installed carpet.

Bruce Jaegar told me it took him several attempts to figure out how to do the velcro. It required completely removing all the glue (lots of work) so that the velcro could adhere to a smooth metal surface. Also you have to get the right professional strength stuff as standard velcro adhesive softens in the heat.

Snaps are a better solution, but you have to be very careful where you locate them so as to not interfere with something underneath. It’s a two person job. It you don’t use enough snaps, the carpet can bunch or wrinkle. For me, it just didn’t seem worth the work, especially since I would have wanted to remove all the old glue if the new carpet was removable.

Skip

Makes sense.  Thanks.