M20B as a trainer?

[bcg]

So as you guys know, I recently got the M20C and today was my first time landing it. 

 You guys all had me super nervous about floating, bouncing, prop strikes, ballooning, porpoising, etc, etc but, I've  found this plane to be sooooo much easier to control and land than the 172s and Cherokee I've been flying.  It's significantly more responsive so I'm not always waiting for it to do something or over correcting because it hasn't caught up with my inputs.  I'm new to this so this is just my lightly informed opinion now but, it seems that if you fly the numbers correctly, the plane will behave in a very predictable manner and, most of the time, touch the ground just as the stall alarm is going off.

I really thought that the transition was going to slow me down considerably but, I think it's actually going to speed progress up once I get the workflow down.  That's taking some work to get used to, I'm either climbing 100 - 200 feet when configuring for landing or getting too fast right now.  Once I get the muscle memory built up to be able to do the gear, prop and mixture without having to look at it all and I can keep my eyes on the G5, I think I'll be able to get that under control and really be in control of the process.

It's really a cool feeling to be flying my own plane and not have to pull everything out at the end of a lesson or need to reconfigure everything the next time I get into it.  I'm really looking forward to spending more time in her and becoming more proficient.  These girls are real engineering marvels.

[Fly Boomer]

18 minutes ago, bcg said:

It's really a cool feeling

And the fun just keeps coming!

[carusoam]

Things change a lot with time…. And experience…

 

When first learning to fly…

The school had a half dozen C152s… all were minutely different…. Ancient by different degrees…. And I had a favorite that I preferred to fly…

A decade later.

Going for the IR… another school had a half dozen C172s to select from… all of the minute differences were just noise to contend with… no favorites…

Oddly, the school also had various instructors, and every lesson was taught to a syllabus… so CFIIs could be swapped based on your schedule… and their availability…  

Training for the PPL is more like a HS science class… training for the IR is more like a college science class…

In college… you are more aware of the learning process…and what it takes to learn everything to meet your goals….

The really cool thing… some CFIs are different… I got the ones with minimum experience for my PPL… the CFIIs for the IR were in the maximum experience arena….

The minimum experience guys were on a mission to get to their next level… learning how to teach was never in their minds… 

 

One of the things that happens… you can fly a lot by feeling… and you can fly a lot better by using numbers to support those feelings…

You will see a lot of conversations about flying the Mooney by the numbers… and what happens when you don’t.

Keep learning!  

Best regards,

-a-

[bcg]

So I thought I'd come back to this now that I've passed my Private check ride in my 1963 C.  Just to recap, I had 20 hours in my log book when I bought the C in August.  10 months, 4 CFIs, 3 weather delays and 176 hours later, I passed in a check ride that took 2.5 hours from start to finish, including the oral.  A lot of my hours (probably 50) were real XC trips from Kerrville to Atlanta, a few to Dallas, several to CC, etc. for things I needed to go do or lunch with my dad, some of it solo, some of it with the CFI and I've flown 57 hours since my first check ride date was cancelled, so I was really ready with 50 - 60 hours of training in the Mooney (plus the previous 20 in the 172 and Cherokee).  Getting a private in a Mooney is totally doable.  Yes, I had a few hard landings early on, including some bounces but, once I learned to manage the energy, that stopped.  The hardest part was learning how to slow the plane down and realizing that although it flies fast, it lands just as slow as a trainer.  After figuring that out, there really isn't that much more to manage and the muscle memory comes quickly.

 

So, if you're considering buying a Mooney before you have your private and finishing your training in it, I say go for it.  I'm super glad I did.

[Pinecone]

Congratulations.  Hope to meet you at a Mooney event some time.

[MBDiagMan]

Sure, a 150 is more typical of what most people train in, but just because they did, doesn’t mean you must.  Maybe it takes a little longer to get past the checkride.  So what?  You will got a complex endorsement in the process.  I’d did my private in my taildragger and got a tailwheel endorsement in the process.  It took longer, but I came out of it confident flying tailwheel.  You will come out of yours confident complex.

A Mooney is actually a very easy to learn aircraft as long as you always remember to pull up that bar before you land. Train properly and you will come out of your checkride a little farther along in your flight training process.

That is my opinion and I respect the differing opinions of others.

[AndreiC]

Congrats! But, wow, 196 hours for a PPL... that's more than 3x the time I took for mine in a 152, 25 years ago. Yes, it's doable, but (especially with current fuel prices) an expensive way to do it -- even ignoring other factors, 1500 gallons of fuel is $7500. I would not recommend to others to do it.

And perhaps the views of someone who just transitioned to a Mooney (M20E, after flying for 1400 hours in Cherokees, Comanches and small Cessnas) may be useful for future people who may get this idea of using a Mooney as trainer. I feel that the Mooney is a lot more of a handful to handle than a fixed gear trainer. It is a quirky airplane. Sure, it's fun once you get it. But my transition to a Mooney from a Cherokee was definitely steeper than the transition from a Cherokee to a Comanche. It's not just the gear and the CS prop: there's flaps to manage on takeoff; there's cowl flaps; there's the atypical rubber pucks on the landing gear, which feel very different from other shock absorbers and are more prone to bouncing. Plus you get a much narrower window of approach speeds that you can use on landing. Yes, it teaches good energy management and speed control, but I think it is easier to learn to fly in a more forgiving airplane and transition later, focusing on the specific aspects of Mooney flying once you have all the other details down pat.

Just my $.02.

[MBDiagMan]

5 hours ago, Andrei Caldararu said:

Congrats! But, wow, 196 hours for a PPL... that's more than 3x the time I took for mine in a 152, 25 years ago. Yes, it's doable, but (especially with current fuel prices) an expensive way to do it -- even ignoring other factors, 1500 gallons of fuel is $7500. I would not recommend to others to do it.

And perhaps the views of someone who just transitioned to a Mooney (M20E, after flying for 1400 hours in Cherokees, Comanches and small Cessnas) may be useful for future people who may get this idea of using a Mooney as trainer. I feel that the Mooney is a lot more of a handful to handle than a fixed gear trainer. It is a quirky airplane. Sure, it's fun once you get it. But my transition to a Mooney from a Cherokee was definitely steeper than the transition from a Cherokee to a Comanche. It's not just the gear and the CS prop: there's flaps to manage on takeoff; there's cowl flaps; there's the atypical rubber pucks on the landing gear, which feel very different from other shock absorbers and are more prone to bouncing. Plus you get a much narrower window of approach speeds that you can use on landing. Yes, it teaches good energy management and speed control, but I think it is easier to learn to fly in a more forgiving airplane and transition later, focusing on the specific aspects of Mooney flying once you have all the other details down pat.

Just my $.02.

All the more reason to just start in the Mooney eliminating the transition time from another type.

Mooneys are not rocket science.  Are they different from 150’s and Cherokees?  Absolutely, but if you start in a Mooney you are learning the differences from day 1.  

I started flying very late in life.  I’m probably the klutziest pilot you ever met, but I learned to fly one.  If I can do it, anyone can do it.

[Hank]

I.took my checkride in a 172 at 52 hours. Five weeks later, I bought my Mooney. Still being in student mode, by the time my required 15 hours dual including 5 hours actual / simulated IMC, I was good.

The day after my signoff, I flew my wife to lunch across the state, and I've been wife open since then.

Mooneys are complicated. Theb172 uses Takeoff flaps, now I only do when heavy. Dealing with the prop became easy on about the third flight, and I watch the gear closely as a gear up will likely end my flying career. Three gear checks:  base and final, check the light; short final, check the floor indicator.