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M20B as a trainer?


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All of this discussion is interesting and you guys make some excellent points that haven’t really been brought up, at least in the five years I’ve been on the site, even though this topic has come up about four times a year. 
Bottom line is that a lot of this may be moot if you can’t get insurance.  
I think I was incredibly lucky to find someone willing to insure me on my ovation before I got my ppl.  I don’t know if that is possible today. 
The premium that first year was about 5,800. I got my ppl and IFR  before renewal and when I renewed it went down to just over 3k.  
At the time I though this was all very reasonable considering training in the flight schools plane was costing me close to 400 an hour with instructor. 
I hired one of the instructors and put him on my payroll which was a win win, it cost me less than paying though the flight school and he made the same amount for 1/4 of the work. 
I also don’t think it’s difficult to learn in a Mooney without breaking anything. 
It will more than likely take you more time (hours) to become comfortable and to solo but I don’t see that as a downside. 
I also  agree that the trainers are trainers for a reason, it’s tried and true, but either method works. I would be willing to bet that the insurance for a b is about the same as an ovation. Turbo will make a difference but anything naturally aspirated will probably be similar. 
has @Parker_Woodruff chimed in?

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2 minutes ago, Schllc said:

All of this discussion is interesting and you guys make some excellent points that haven’t really been brought up, at least in the five years I’ve been on the site, even though this topic has come up about four times a year. 
Bottom line is that a lot of this may be moot if you can’t get insurance.  
I think I was incredibly lucky to find someone willing to insure me on my ovation before I got my ppl.  I don’t know if that is possible today. 
The premium that first year was about 5,800. I got my ppl and IFR  before renewal and when I renewed it went down to just over 3k.  
At the time I though this was all very reasonable considering training in the flight schools plane was costing me close to 400 an hour with instructor. 
I hired one of the instructors and put him on my payroll which was a win win, it cost me less than paying though the flight school and he made the same amount for 1/4 of the work. 
I also don’t think it’s difficult to learn in a Mooney without breaking anything. 
It will more than likely take you more time (hours) to become comfortable and to solo but I don’t see that as a downside. 
I also  agree that the trainers are trainers for a reason, it’s tried and true, but either method works. I would be willing to bet that the insurance for a b is about the same as an ovation. Turbo will make a difference but anything naturally aspirated will probably be similar. 
has @Parker_Woodruff chimed in?

I've been talking to Parker about insurance.  I expect insurance to be an issue until I build some hours, which is why this one piqued my interest.  At this price point, as long as I can get liability coverage to keep my Umbrella carrier happy, I don't absolutely need to get coverage for the hull.

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4 minutes ago, bcg said:

I've been talking to Parker about insurance.  I expect insurance to be an issue until I build some hours, which is why this one piqued my interest.  At this price point, as long as I can get liability coverage to keep my Umbrella carrier happy, I don't absolutely need to get coverage for the hull.

I wouldn’t take any of these guys comments as negativity, they are just sharing their experiences and want the best for you. 
We are all kind of passionate about mooneys, so it isn’t chastising, more just emphatic tutelage. 

Btw, I integrated  gumps into my checklist from my second or third lesson forward, even in the 172, 182, arrow  and cirrus I flew when I started training.  I figured if I was planning to own a retract it would be better to make that part of my habits early. 

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I wouldn’t take any of these guys comments as negativity, they are just sharing their experiences and want the best for you. 
We are all kind of passionate about mooneys, so it isn’t chastising, more just emphatic tutelage. 

Btw, I integrated  gumps into my checklist from my second or third lesson forward, even in the 172, 182, arrow  and cirrus I flew when I started training.  I figured if I was planning to own a retract it would be better to make that part of my habits early. 
I'm doing GUMPS anytime we get ready to do any maneuvers, right now Undercarriage is Flaps. Later it can be Flaps and Gear.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

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1) this topic comes up 4 times each year…

2) There is a heavy bias towards using a trainer for training… it usually makes the most sense.

3) There is also a list of people that have done their primary training in high performance Mooneys…

4) Using the Mooney for primary training… expect that it takes longer than using the trainer.

5) Skipping the the trainer, will also skip flying a different airframe… which is all part of having a good broad background in flying… similar to tail wheels and gliders….

6) Buying and selling a C172 is pretty easy… doing the same for an M20B is usually a bit more challenging…

7) it can take years to gain all of the experience for flying safely… unfortunately, there aren’T any short cuts for that…

Assess your skills, assess your requirements, decide why you want to train in an M20B… go for it!

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

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2 hours ago, bcg said:

I've been talking to Parker about insurance.  I expect insurance to be an issue until I build some hours, which is why this one piqued my interest.  At this price point, as long as I can get liability coverage to keep my Umbrella carrier happy, I don't absolutely need to get coverage for the hull.

@bcg

Have you actually discussed this with your umbrella carrier?

Some/many will NOT touch insuring GA regardless of your underlying coverage.

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Double check for fine print…

There is probably a list of things they don’t intend to cover…

Cigarette smoking, canoeing, motorcycle riding in NJ…

:)
 

Best regards,

-a-

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1 hour ago, bcg said:

So I decided against a B and made a deal on a C today instead. emoji846.png

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
 

Cs are great machines! Enjoy it!

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On 7/30/2022 at 5:27 PM, bcg said:

So I decided against a B and made a deal on a C today instead. emoji846.png

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
 

As always, we expect, nay....demand photos!!!!:D

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6 hours ago, Greg Ellis said:

As always, we expect, nay....demand photos!!!!:D

They're coming.  PPI is scheduled for 8/13, I'll get some then.

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New owner lesson #1…

Leave keys on the glare shield…

Keys left in the ignition, and left in the live mag positions…

Can magically fire off when pushing the plane by its prop…

A single cylinder firing can be hazardous to one’s health…

 

Lesson #2…   Clarence is nick-named Eagle Eye…   :)

Best regards,

-a-

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In the first picture the engine is running and there is someone in the pilot’s seat.  In the second picture the pilot’s seat is empty, and the magneto switch is in the same position.  
 

 

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Nice bird, tough crowd. Airplanes are a collection of processes and procedures just waiting to be overlooked. We’ve all done it. Probably happens more at the beginning and end of our flying years. It’s why we often choose simple airplanes to train in as well as to finish out our twilight years. 

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Nice bird, tough crowd. Airplanes are a collection of processes and procedures just waiting to be over looked. We’ve all done it. Probably happens more at the beginning and end of our flying years. It’s why we often choose simple airplanes to train in as well as to finish out our twilight years. 
LOL, it's all good. They're just protective of planes that aren't being made anymore, which also makes them protective of low hour pilots by default. I don't take it personally, I know they're coming from a place of concern and I actually appreciate the input, even if it isn't what I want to hear. Some good points were made that I had not previously considered.

At the end of the day though, I trust the opinion of my CFI and my dad, who know me personally, more than people on the Internet that have never met me. Both were in favor of this so, I went with it. If either of them had been opposed, I would've held off until they felt otherwise or I'd have bought a trainer.

I'm really looking forward to spending some time in her and not bouncing around between the different flight school planes because of availability or maintenance. It's tougher to learn when you're not consistently in the same plane. The sight picture, performance, engine settings for proper descent speed, view of the runway at flair all changes when I move into a different plane and it always takes me back a step for that lesson. Having my own will eliminate that issue.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

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47 minutes ago, bcg said:

LOL, it's all good. They're just protective of planes that aren't being made anymore, which also makes them protective of low hour pilots by default. I don't take it personally, I know they're coming from a place of concern and I actually appreciate the input, even if it isn't what I want to hear. Some good points were made that I had not previously considered.

At the end of the day though, I trust the opinion of my CFI and my dad, who know me personally, more than people on the Internet that have never met me. Both were in favor of this so, I went with it. If either of them had been opposed, I would've held off until they felt otherwise or I'd have bought a trainer.

I'm really looking forward to spending some time in her and not bouncing around between the different flight school planes because of availability or maintenance. It's tougher to learn when you're not consistently in the same plane. The sight picture, performance, engine settings for proper descent speed, view of the runway at flair all changes when I move into a different plane and it always takes me back a step for that lesson. Having my own will eliminate that issue.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
 

I hope it goes well for you. One thing to consider along the way is that old, ratty underpowered trainers also have their own lessons to teach.  Your new to you M20C and an old C150 both require good energy management but the phases of flight where it is most critical are different for each.  I received a very practical education regarding the effects DA and making do with minimal performance while flying a C150 in Indiana...primarily during the hottest and coldest months of the year (I did my primary training on summer and winter break during college).

It's good that you have experienced folks in your support circle. I look forward to updates on your progress.

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1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

I hope it goes well for you. One thing to consider along the way is that old, ratty underpowered trainers also have their own lessons to teach.  Your new to you M20C and an old C150 both require good energy management but the phases of flight where it is most critical are different for each.  I received a very practical education regarding the effects DA and making do with minimal performance while flying a C150 in Indiana...primarily during the hottest and coldest months of the year (I did my primary training on summer and winter break during college).

It's good that you have experienced folks in your support circle. I look forward to updates on your progress.

I learn something from every flight and every plane, that's for sure, of course at just under 20 hours now that's to be expected.  The school has a Citabria tail wheel that I want to spend some time in after my PPL to get the tail wheel endorsement and really just because I think they teach some stick and rudder skills that you can't get otherwise.  After a couple hundred hours, I'm going to find someone to do some aerobatic training with, not because I want to do aerobatics in a Mooney but because again, I think it teaches stick and rudder skills that do apply to just about any aircraft and it'll make me a better pilot overall, plus aerobatics are fun. 

Right now though, my focus is to finish the PPL and get an instrument rating by the end of the year.  It's going to be a lot of work but, it's doable.  I don't want to even attempt a long cross country flight before I'm instrument rated and definitely don't want to travel with my family without the instrument rating.  It's been drilled into me by my dad that an instrument rating makes a safer pilot and it's very likely to save my life one day.  He's seen a lot more than me in this respect so, I can't argue with his assertion at all.

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