1992 M20J Panel Upgrade / Advice

[LANCECASPER]

On 5/14/2022 at 2:47 PM, gevertex said:

I put together a few other examples of layouts.  I am assuming I can shift the radio stacks left in two of them.  Is this a bad assumption? I think I like the G5 Left one the best so far and standard stacks second best.  Any restrictions on where the gear toggle can go?

 

 

 

I would go with this option and skip the second G3X. put that money toward the best radios in the center stack. Make sure you get at least one 650XI or 750XI so you can do Safe Glide. Later if you you feel you have to have something on the far right, do a panel dock with an Area 760 in there. 

[PT20J]

10 hours ago, gevertex said:

Hey Skip.  That is sage advice and I took it. Over the last day, I read all of the manuals for the parts I listed at the beginning of the thread.  While I could be missing something, I honestly didn't see anything missing I was counting on even with the GNX375.  Yes, I get that if I had 2x GPS navigators then I wouldn't be able to crossfill between the two, but I am only planning to have one and use the G3x touch GPS as a VFR only backup.  The only missing feature that I might like to have is VNAV on the GNX357, but VNAV is available for VFR when using the G3X as the GPS source. Changing the GPS source is just 2 taps on the G3X touch flight plan screen.

 

  Here is what I was able to confirm by reading the manuals + watching YouTube demonstrations of the functionality:

• With a little fuss flight plan info can be entered via G3X, Foreflight on an iPad, or directly into the GNX 375 and synced to all 3. IFR waypoints must originate from Foreflight (to the GNX 375) or be input directly into the GNX 375.  Looks like there is a work around for this in playing with the GPS source on the G3X, but not counting on it
• GNX 375 transponder is controllable from G3X display
• GFC500 will fly coupled LPV approaches including glideslope
• GTR 20B allows inout of frequencies via G3X
• GNC 255A allows input of frequencies via G3X
• GNC 255A show ILS guidance + VOR course deviation on G3X (just like on G5)
• GMA 345 can't be controlled by the G3X, but I want to keep it because I like having some buttons for dealing with audio quickly (such as one button clearance playback).  I wouldn't loose that if g3x died completely.
• GFC 500 couples to G3X for VFR VNAV, but not when using GNX 375 as GPS source
• After thinking about it a bit, I actually like the 7" in front of the copilot.  I fly with pilot friends relatively frequently and it would be helpful for them to be able to manage the flight plan, radios, TXP, etc.

What else am I missing / should I expect from spending this kind of money on a new panel?  Also, if anyone has direct contradictory experience, please let me know.  I am going only off what I could find in manuals / saw visually demonstrated on YouTube.

 

 

As you can see, everyone has their favorite configuration. That's why I think it is best to study up as you are doing and figure out what works best for you. Your needs and wants might not be like everyone else's. It would be a lot easier if Garmin's manuals were better written and more consistent. 

Compared to the GTN Xi, the GTX 375 would have a smaller screen, no VNAV, no GPS/VLOC switching and no Smart Glide. Clearly one can get by without those, but they are nice features and worth considering.

Garmin's use of the term VNAV is not consistent. The VNAV in the GTN will allow the GFC 500 to fly a vertical profile using altitudes from the flight plan. This is handy for instrument approaches, especially if there are a lot of step down fixes. The VNAV in the G3X is more like the simpler VNAV function in the GNS useful for enroute let downs. In the GTN, this function is called VCALC, but it is not available if the more useful VNAV is enabled.

I sometimes still need to fly an ILS, and with the GTN you use the GPS to fly it just like a LPV approach as it navigates via GPS and switches to VLOC automatically before the final segment. It's nice to be able to use the same procedures for all types of approaches.

Skip

[gevertex]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

I would go with this option and skip the second G3X. put that money toward the best radios in the center stack. Make sure you get at least one 650XI or 750XI so you can do Safe Glide. Later if you you feel you have to have something on the far right, do a panel dock with an Area 760 in there. 

I did not know about safe glide.  That does seem like an interesting feature

[gevertex]

14 hours ago, McMooney said:

check with the avionics shop about moving the radios, I found out the hard way(spent more money) avionics stcs can be pretty particular about where radios are located

I'll be sure to check with them.

[PT20J]

Antennas spacing can get to be problematic also. It’s hard to cram a lot of antennas on a small airplane and meet the spacing specs. 

[gevertex]

11 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Antennas spacing can get to be problematic also. It’s hard to cram a lot of antennas on a small airplane and meet the spacing specs. 

Luckily the airplane already has 2 radios and 3 GPS antenna installed so I should be good on that front.

[hubcap]

Safe Glide was one of the selling points that convinced me to go with the GFC 500

[David M20J]

On 5/14/2022 at 3:42 AM, JohnZ said:

What iPad case and mount are you using here? assuming its a mini, is it a 6th gen?

[INA201]

This is ours. Remote Bluetooth audio. I like the 750 with voice command too.  A lot of ways to arrange these panels. I currently have no complaints with our decision. 

[gevertex]

41 minutes ago, INA201 said:

This is ours. Remote Bluetooth audio. I like the 750 with voice command too.  A lot of ways to arrange these panels. I currently have no complaints with our decision. 

That is really helpful to see, I like that layout a lot.  Your glare-shield doesn't have the hump.  Did it come that way, or is it a mod?

[INA201]

Pretty sure it’s the original 1978 but I’m not 100%. It was in very bad shape when I first got the plane. 

[David M20J]

1 hour ago, INA201 said:

Pretty sure it’s the original 1978 but I’m not 100%. It was in very bad shape when I first got the plane. 

my 1977 still has the original glare shield and it doesnt have the hump thing

 

5 hours ago, JohnZ said:

The case is a Pivot for the 6th gen iPad mini. It has a cutout for Apple Pencil integration. It is attached to the pivot claw mount (which is RAM mount hardware). I don’t remember if I got the small claw or small claw + extended arm. You can always order a different arm length if necessary. Attached are links for the case and mount. They are expensive, but out of the several iPad mounting solutions that I’ve tried, this configuration is easily the best. 

case: https://flyboys.com/collections/pivot-cases/products/pivot-t21a

mount: https://flyboys.com/collections/pivot-suction-mounts/products/pivot-claw-mount-1?variant=39578255458404

I've been trying a lot of different mounts with and without ipad cases and ultimately I wanted my iPad in a case and not many mounting systems worked well with a case.  this one looks great though and caught my attention real quick

How is the heat with that case, does it overheat?

Edited May 19, 2022 by David M20J

[ArtVandelay]

The 77 glare shield is different than the 78 and it’s different than 79 when I think they added the hump.

[INA201]

Here is Garmin’s Grumman Tiger. I borrowed on their set up to do mine.  I preferred the GFC500 control panel in the center beneath the 7” display.  Overall the Tiger looks great. 

[gevertex]

14 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

The 77 glare shield is different than the 78 and it’s different than 79 when I think they added the hump.

Thanks for the info. Good to know. 

[PT20J]

I also find that directing the wemac vent down by my knee up towards the yoke provided cooling. 

[McMooney]

I use two IPads, mini5 and mini6 when flying real distance, 1 may or may not play an inflight movie 8)

1 is mounted on the yoke,  

the other is attached to the windshield bar, above the compass near the ceiling.

I use Xgrip mounts and standard speck cases, have never had issues with over heating.  

 

 

 

[Fly Boomer]

3 minutes ago, McMooney said:

I use Xgrip mounts and standard speck cases, have never had issues with over heating. 

Are those the ones with essentially no back (better air circulation)?

[McMooney]

16 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Are those the ones with essentially no back (better air circulation)?

yes.  RAM® X-Grip® Universal Holder for 7"-8" Tablets with Ball (rammount.com)

 

[Fly Boomer]

37 minutes ago, McMooney said:

yes.  RAM® X-Grip® Universal Holder for 7"-8" Tablets with Ball

Thanks.

[gevertex]

I finally decided to go with the following.

G3X 10"

G3X 7"

G5

GFC 500

2x GTR20

GNX 375

I'll plan to add a 650XI later on, but I am not wanting to spend the ~$15k it would take to do it now. I did want the extra 7" MFD as I opted to go for the remote audio panel and I wanted a backup screen if the 10" went out. I also hear the 10" can get a little crowded with the map, engine info, and PFD on it.

 

I have been playing with panel layouts.  Any thoughts on this layout?

[Niko182]

9 minutes ago, gevertex said:

I finally decided to go with the following.

G3X 10"

G3X 7"

G5

GFC 500

2x GTR20

GNX 375

I'll plan to add a 650XI later on, but I am not wanting to spend the ~$15k it would take to do it now. I did want the extra 7" MFD as I opted to go for the remote audio panel and I wanted a backup screen if the 10" went out. I also hear the 10" can get a little crowded with the map, engine info, and PFD on it.

 

I have been playing with panel layouts.  Any thoughts on this layout?

The layout with the 7in G3X will be quite awkward for you. I’d also do a gtr200 and a gnc255 so you have ILS capability. Having radios to physically change is a lot nicer than using the touch screen.

[gevertex]

2 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

The layout with the 7in G3X will be quite awkward for you. I’d also do a gtr200 and a gnc255 so you have ILS capability. Having radios to physically change is a lot nicer than using the touch screen.

Equipment was already ordered.  Going in starting Monday. I actually like the remote radio. You can still change the frequency using the built in dials if you want. Also g3x supports auto loading frequencies at a touch. So I am not too worried about it. Planning to add the nav radio when I get the 650 later.  

I am asking about placement of the equipment on the panel. 
 

 

[carusoam]

gever,

 

What is the estimated time to first flight?

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Guillaume]

3 hours ago, gevertex said:

I finally decided to go with the following.

G3X 10"

G3X 7"

G5

GFC 500

2x GTR20

GNX 375

I'll plan to add a 650XI later on, but I am not wanting to spend the ~$15k it would take to do it now. I did want the extra 7" MFD as I opted to go for the remote audio panel and I wanted a backup screen if the 10" went out. I also hear the 10" can get a little crowded with the map, engine info, and PFD on it.

 

I have been playing with panel layouts.  Any thoughts on this layout?

GTN650 is quite deep and there is limited space on top of the radio stock. 

I'm not sure that's physically possible.