Using Your Cellphone To make a Call Airborne

[GeneralT001]

I can get text messages while flying but I can never successfully get a call to go out...always ends with "call failed".

I'm using my Lightspeed headset with Blue Tooth connected to the phone.

Is there something special you need to do or have?

[carusoam]

1 minute ago, GeneralT001 said:

I can get text messages while flying but I can never successfully get a call to go out...always ends with "call failed".

I'm using my Lightspeed headset with Blue Tooth connected to the phone.

Is there something special you need to do or have?

Yes,

1) be flying near a major city…

2) be familiar with the cone angle the cell towers use…

3) Ask @Gagarin how he did/does it…

José is familiar with radios and their antennas… and liked to post pics of the weather data he would receive at altitude… around S. FL….

4) After that… reception improves around 2k’ agl…

5) Texts work pretty well… they wait until having some reception before firing off… 

Calling for a ride during the descent was always a challenge… the house was under the traffic pattern…

PP thoughts only, not a radio guru…

Best regards,

-a-

[LANCECASPER]

10 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said:

I can get text messages while flying but I can never successfully get a call to go out...always ends with "call failed".

I'm using my Lightspeed headset with Blue Tooth connected to the phone.

Is there something special you need to do or have?

In the states calls from an airplane are against FCC regulations, supposedly since you are in line of sight of so many cell sites that you can knock off other calls.

Your inability to make a voice call has nothing to do with your bluetooth or Lightspeed headset. It may occasionally be possible to make a call, but I wouldn't plan on it. It's just not the way the phone is designed. If you absolutely need to make a call from an airplane a Sat phone would give you a much better chance.

Texts or even internet weather are from Data which is much more likely to happen if you are near a lot of towers. 

[Skates97]

2 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Yes,

1) be flying near a major city…

 

Or it is completely random... Flying at 10,500' over the middle of nowhere New Mexico, cell call with crystal clear audio. Flying at 3,000' over the LA Basin, spotty service...

[carusoam]

5 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

Or it is completely random... Flying at 10,500' over the middle of nowhere New Mexico, cell call with crystal clear audio. Flying at 3,000' over the LA Basin, spotty service...

Call it random…

The cell towers a trying to keep their coverage to the local cell area…

But… sometimes their signal gets away and bounces above 10k’….

More towers… more chances of success…

 

Standby for some people with cell tower equipment experience to stop by…

We have a few skilled people on MS!

Go MS!

Best regards,

-a-

[PT20J]

 Unfortunately, cell phone use from airborne aircraft is illegal per 47 CFR 22.925:

§ 22.925 Prohibition on airborne operation of cellular telephones.

Cellular telephones installed in or carried aboard airplanes, balloons or any other type of aircraft must not be operated while such aircraft are airborne (not touching the ground). When any aircraft leaves the ground, all cellular telephones on board that aircraft must be turned off. The following notice must be posted on or near each cellular telephone installed in any aircraft: 

“The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is airborne is prohibited by FCC rules, and the violation of this rule could result in suspension of service and/or a fine. The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is on the ground is subject to FAA regulations.”

Skip

 

[GeneralT001]

I wonder if the same rule applies in Canada?

[carusoam]

Canadian FCC rules?

-a-

[201Steve]

You get a sat device that provides Sat internet and make calls with internet phone, like WhatsApp. 
 

https://www.satphonestore.com/iridium-go-aviation-package-available-now.html

[carusoam]

People also use emergency locating beacons… that not only trace your GPS location, but also have text capabilities…

The name of that device is……… (?)

There are a few discussions on that topic that come up when people cross large bodies of emptiness…

Best regards,

-a-

[PT20J]

7 minutes ago, carusoam said:

People also use emergency locating beacons… that not only trace your GPS location, but also have text capabilities…

The name of that device is……… (?)

There are a few discussions on that topic that come up when people cross large bodies of emptiness…

Best regards,

-a-

SPOT, Garmin inReach + a few others. 

[PeteMc]

13 minutes ago, carusoam said:

People also use emergency locating beacons…

The Garmin inReach allows you to send text messages via satellite.  So fully legal in a plane.

[EricJ]

The technical answer is that your text takes a very small fraction of a second to send or be received, but a call requires maintaining a constant link, which is much harder to do for a vehicle moving quickly through sectors.    I've done a few calls from the airplane, but they're always sketchy and not very reliable.    Texts are much more likely to succeed.

The ban on cell phones in aircraft seems to be more due to it creating problems for the cellular systems than for aircraft.   I suspect the cellular providers complained to the FCC.

 

[A64Pilot]

Way back in the day before digital phones, the old analog phones would work. Since digital phones came out, no longer. They work fine at low altitude like 1000 or lower. I assume it’s either the towers actually direct the signal, or maybe the phone uses it’s GPS to disallow use?

I used to use mine often to get an IFR clearance in small airports, ATC liked hearing you were on the departure end ready for immediate departure. I had an audio panel that connected to the phone through a wired connection. Analog phone days, it would work to send and receive calls at altitude.

[PeteMc]

8 hours ago, EricJ said:

The ban on cell phones in aircraft seems to be more due to it creating problems for the cellular systems than for aircraft.

It was much more of an issue for the early cell system, the got better at filtering out duplicate phones in later updates.  But the main reason cell phone are banned from use in the air is that they are a "land based" license.  It all ties into the fact that in the air your phone can attempt to connect to multiple towers, but a bigger concern (I think) of the FCC back in the day was basic frequency interference.  Phone was designed to be on the ground and when you take it up high, it can now interfere with a lot of other cell phones trying to connect.  That's a basic radio frequency issue that goes back to the early licensing.  Same reason most radio stations reduce their power or change their antenna array at night, there can be a lot more frequency interference due to the cooling air (and a lot of other tech reasons).

I've seen some push the issue that "technically" you shouldn't use a cell phone on a boat either since there is a Marine License, which cellular service doesn't have.  But personally I think that's pushing it. 

[A64Pilot]

19 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

I've seen some push the issue that "technically" you shouldn't use a cell phone on a boat either since there is a Marine License, which cellular service doesn't have.  But personally I think that's pushing it. 

It’s my understanding that an issue of use in the air was that one cell phone could and often did “key” up several towers at a time due to line of sight.

In tne US anyway the cell towers don’t usually direct their signals off shore, you can see a tower and not have signal, on the Intercoastal Waterway you almost always have signal of course because that pretty much a wide ditch, but even close off shore not so much.

However in the Bahamas you will often have signal and be out of sight of land, apparently cell towers are very directional, I think those antennas that look like pipes on a tower can beam signals almost like a VOR does, maybe? The Bahamas obviously intend cell use on boats

Edited April 12, 2022 by A64Pilot

[steingar]

You can usually get a call out when you're on approach to the airport.  If you get low enough you can hit the cell phone towers, say if you want to tell the person picking you up that you'll be there in a few minutes.

[N201MKTurbo]

The cell tower antennas are designed to concentrate their signal to a horizontal plane from the antenna. They send and receive very little signal above and below that plane. Airplanes operate above that plane and there is very little signal available at that angle.

The prohibition on using a cell phone comes from the old days of analog cell phones. There were only 100 or so frequencies available and the cells were arranged so the frequencies could be reused based on distance. When you connected you were assigned one of those frequencies. When you were in an airplane, you could not only communicate with your assigned cell tower, but also a distant tower on the same frequency. With todays data and frequency schemes (CDMA TDMA etc.) These issues are moot.

[A64Pilot]

I often use my phone bluetooth to listen to streaming music when flying my C-140, as I’m only infrequently above 1000 ft, it works fine, but I don’t make calls, so maybe data is different than voice?

[Supereri73]

If data is better, what about using data voice call like Microsoft teams, Telegram, or even Google Voice?

[GeneralT001]

Hey, thanks for all the replies...very informative.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The prohibition on using a cell phone comes from the old days of analog cell phones. There were only 100 or so frequencies available and the cells were arranged so the frequencies could be reused based on distance. When you connected you were assigned one of those frequencies. When you were in an airplane, you could not only communicate with your assigned cell tower, but also a distant tower on the same frequency. With todays data and frequency schemes (CDMA TDMA etc.) These issues are moot.

No, it's the same problem today, and it's even worse now.   CDMA isn't used much any more because, depite Qualcomm's marketing, it provided no real advantage in capacity, and didn't scale as well as the more modern methods (like OFDMA).   These days capacity is increased mostly by having more towers in a denser grid, which means frequency re-use is an even bigger problem, which is managed partly by transmit power control in the handset.   As you mentioned, if the handset is above the high-gain part of the base station antenna pattern, the base station will tell it to turn its transmit power up, which increases the likelihood that it will interfere with other sectors of other cells on the same frequency if it is airborne. 

Then it's complicated even more when the handset moves quickly between cells and sectors and has to be handed off more often than expected.   It causes more overhead in the network management and increases the likelihood of getting dropped.

Most of the methods that make 5G "better" don't solve any of those problem, as the optimizations are for pedestrian mobility and automotive mobility.   There are some beamforming techniques used in 5G that help isolate terminals (MIMO stuff), but most of them rely on a reasonably stable channel characteristic, which isn't likely for a fast-moving terminal.

The complexity of the modern systems is pretty high due to squeezing more optimization out of the expected use cases, which usually means squeezing out cases outside of the expected use, which is, us. 

[A64Pilot]

Eric, I assume your in the business?

[A64Pilot]

9 hours ago, Supereri73 said:

If data is better, what about using data voice call like Microsoft teams, Telegram, or even Google Voice?

I don’t know that it is, in the 140 I’m tooling around about 100 mph to 120 max and usually only 1000 AGL, voice may work there.

[hais]

22 hours ago, GeneralT001 said:

I wonder if the same rule applies in Canada?

I used a cellphone once to call bay tower when I lost my radio while flying over the straight. Another time I called Kamloops FIC to change flight plan because I couldn't raise them over radio. If there is a rule against it, they neglected to cite me.