Should Tesla buy Mooney?

[carusoam]

On another note…

 

Tesla started up their third car factory this week…

Its in Europe.

 

SpaceX seems to be building rockets in two factories… TX and FL…

Right next to the launch sites…

 

Electric flying machines are making headway… similar to drones more than helicopters… and planes…. Or a combination of all three…

Best regards,

-a-

[A64Pilot]

List of Tesla production facilities, look at what year they started production, and the number of jobs of each one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_factories

Good or bad, right or wrong but Tesla is growing by leaps and bounds, maybe too fast who knows

 

Fremont is among the most productive production plants in the US at 51 cars per hour or almost a car every minute, but Berlin and Tx are expected to eclipse those numbers as they are built to optimize production, so Tesla may double production rates this year? They almost doubled production rates last year by increasing 87%

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/02/business/tesla-sales.html

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-giga-texas-vs-fremont-factory-productivity/

Dec China production rate of over 70,000 vehicles

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-china-dec-2021-sales-new-record/

Edited March 24, 2022 by A64Pilot

[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

17 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

What astonished me is today I read that 78% of EV owners don’t have any charge capability at home.

I don’t believe that, makes you wonder where they get these numbers? 

I would guess they are including hybrids in the EV category.  I doubt (m)any hybrids are charged anywhere but home, and very few at home.

The proper question to ask is, Who gains what by putting out BS numbers?

Edited March 24, 2022 by AH-1 Cobra Pilot

[MIm20c]

I’m curious what MS members are paying to insure their Tesla per year?

[mike_elliott]

6 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

I’m curious what MS members are paying to insure their Tesla per year?

1300 for a X performance, will be lower when I can get it from Tesla where my driving habits wont be "group thinked" but individually evaluated. I believe Tesla's hold 3 of the top 4 safest car ratings from NHTSA, but may be mistaken.

[RobertGary1]

If Tesla bought Mooney parts could only be installed by factory service centers and getting the factory service manual would be restrictive.  If you google "Tesla right to repair" you'll see all the challenges with not paying Tesla to do your maintenance.

[mike_elliott]

If Tesla bought Mooney, they wont be building M20's. No worry here Robert. They wont be buying it to continue down the same path. Unless you know a good IA that can work on an Electric VTOL, it might be well served to let Tesla service work on your Tesla plane.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, AH-1 Cobra Pilot said:

I would guess they are including hybrids in the EV category.  I doubt (m)any hybrids are charged anywhere but home, and very few at home.

The proper question to ask is, Who gains what by putting out BS numbers?

The article was pretty specific about the nuances of the numbers:

• Yes, but: Respondents weren't asked whether they have an ordinary electrical outlet in their garage or near their driveway, which is all that's needed to plug in an EV. (A dedicated charger is faster, but isn't necessary.)
• That was by design, explains mobility analyst Lisa Whalen, who authored the Morning Consult’s State of Automotive and Mobility report.
• "It just shows the disconnect in the education of the public" about charging, she said.

It was pretty clear the survey was for automobile owners in general, not owners of EV vehicles.

Edited March 24, 2022 by jaylw314

[Kmac]

1 hour ago, MIm20c said:

I’m curious what MS members are paying to insure their Tesla per year?

'21 Model 3 LR $877

'20 Model Y LR $805

[201Steve]

[Kmac]

1 hour ago, mike_elliott said:

If Tesla bought Mooney, they wont be building M20's.

But they should.

[carusoam]

What would a Tesla aircraft look like?

1) A full scale drone

2) Aircaft with traditional wings, electric powered

3) Combination of wings and drone

Thinking out loud…

The electric people movers are coming… getting closer…

Best regards,

-a-

[hais]

19 hours ago, carusoam said:

What would a Tesla aircraft look like?

1) A full scale drone

2) Aircaft with traditional wings, electric powered

3) Combination of wings and drone

Thinking out loud…

The electric people movers are coming… getting closer…

Best regards,

-a-

A long body with distributed propulsion ... at least in my dream world

[Hank]

On 3/25/2022 at 12:13 AM, carusoam said:

What would a Tesla aircraft look like?

Hopefully better than Elon's abomination that's alleged to be a truck . . . . .

[aviatoreb]

Forget quiet efficient electric cars.

I want a crazy noisy fuel guzzling smoke belching turbine car!

 

 

[Hank]

Cool video, Erik! How long until you are behind a turbine? 

On the ground, in the air, wherever . . . .

[aviatoreb]

On 3/26/2022 at 10:54 AM, Hank said:

Cool video, Erik! How long until you are behind a turbine? 

On the ground, in the air, wherever . . . .

I bet a high quality well preserved specimen of that rare classic car must cost more than a plain vanilla single engine turbine airplane.

Might be awhile ..

[A64Pilot]

On 3/26/2022 at 9:28 AM, aviatoreb said:

Forget quiet efficient electric cars.

I want a crazy noisy fuel guzzling smoke belching turbine car!

 

 

I read a lot about those when I was younger. 

‘This was before the energy concerns, but do you know a big reason that was giver for why they were dropped? Lack of availability of unleaded fuel. Turbines can’t run leaded fuel for long as it builds up on the blades and causes a balance issue.

‘I thought they were all crushed?

What really almost made it though was turbine OTR trucks

Edited March 28, 2022 by A64Pilot

[aviatoreb]

45 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

I read a lot about those when I was younger. 

‘This was before the energy concerns, but do you know a big reason that was giver for why they were dropped? Lack of availability of unleaded fuel. Turbines can’t run leaded fuel for long as it builds up on the blades and causes a balance issue.

‘I thought they were all crushed?

What really almost made it though was turbine OTR trucks

No kidding - leaded fuel eh?  They didn't have diesel back then?  It won't burn diesel?

I saw one on the Jay Leno car show.  Of course he has one...

It's a pretty silly car, but how cool!

I think a few exist, a very few.  I bet they cost as much or more than a TBM930 to acquire.  Ok, if I had to choose because I only had 3.5M to spend - yes I would choose the TBM.

Edited March 28, 2022 by aviatoreb

[A64Pilot]

Of course they had Diesel, but pretty much only at truck stops, which aren’t really car friendly, plus Diesel stinks and soots up exhaust, gasoline was the preferred fuel, fuel milage wasn’t really bad for the time, better than you would think.

Another issue was the very high exhaust temp, some pluses were instant heat.

On edit, it’s my opinion that they died during the first oil crisis, and about that time emissions took off, and I have no idea how hard it is to get a turbine past emissions testing.

I thought all the turbines were destroyed, sort of like GM’s EV1’s were, but obviously some survived

‘In this respect ir seems the turbines and the Wankel may have died for similar reasons, GM had a Wankel, and was on the cusp of selling them, even had the car built, and didn’t. Engine was tested and had a life expectancy of over 500,000 miles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Rotary_Combustion_Engine

 They even took the cars to Europe and drove them around. I was a Mopar fan back in the day, had a Roadrunner etc.

Mopar really took it in the shorts from Nascar back then too, from memory a Daytona Charger (same car as the Superbird Roadrunner) lapped Talledega at 199+ average lap speed, Ford or GM didn’t have anything to compare and Nascar outlawed the big Mopar’s.

I’m not a Nascar fan, don’t watch it etc.

Edited March 28, 2022 by A64Pilot

[aviatoreb]

40 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Of course they had Diesel, but pretty much only at truck stops, which aren’t really car friendly, plus Diesel stinks and soots up exhaust, gasoline was the preferred fuel, fuel milage wasn’t really bad for the time, better than you would think.

Another issue was the very high exhaust temp, some pluses were instant heat.

On edit, it’s my opinion that they died during the first oil crisis, and about that time emissions took off, and I have no idea how hard it is to get a turbine past emissions testing.

I thought all the turbines were destroyed, sort of like GM’s EV1’s were, but obviously some survived

‘In this respect ir seems the turbines and the Wankel may have died for similar reasons, GM had a Wankel, and was on the cusp of selling them, even had the car built, and didn’t. Engine was tested and had a life expectancy of over 500,000 miles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Rotary_Combustion_Engine

 They even took the cars to Europe and drove them around. I was a Mopar fan back in the day, had a Roadrunner etc.

Mopar really took it in the shorts from Nascar back then too, from memory a Daytona Charger (same car as the Superbird Roadrunner) lapped Talledega at 199+ average lap speed, Ford or GM didn’t have anything to compare and Nascar outlawed the big Mopar’s.

I’m not a Nascar fan, don’t watch it etc.

Actually thank you - a more thoughtful answer than I was expecting for such a silly car.

If I were Jay Leno rich I would buy one for sake of a silly car collectors item.

I have no expectation that a turbine engine is in any way anything but silly.

But you did answer my question re diesel - it existed but not so much available.

Maybe they could run this thing on home heating oil?

French fry mobile?

Yea I expect the metallurgy in this machine in turbine and exhaust system was not up to snuff for long term operations.

[steingar]

If Tesla, or anyone could automate aircraft assembly they'd own the market.  Labor is the biggest cost in aircraft manufacture, and I've heard self proclaimed geniuses before claim they were going to automate the whole thing.  If they could actually do it they could deliver a lot more for a lot less and power it by whatever they want.  I hate to say never,  but I can't see how you automate the assembly of something like an aircraft.  

[A64Pilot]

It would run off of just about anything that would pour and burn. Diesel. kerosene, unleaded gas, home heating fuel etc.

Actually the Thrush S2R-T34 is certified for #1 and #2 Diesel and I believe home heating fuel as well as Jet, but diesel burns dirtier and you have to have your fuel nozzles cleaned more often, and turns out most of the time it’s not cheaper than Jet

In France they poured perfume in the tank to illustrate that. It was I think a serious attempt for the car of the future, I believe Chrysler spent several years and even built several different engines developing it, they built from memory over 50 of them and leased or loaned them to individuals for product testing, just like GM did later with the EV1.

‘I thought they were all crushed to avoid the tax that was due if they weren’t destroyed

[A64Pilot]

11 minutes ago, steingar said:

If Tesla, or anyone could automate aircraft assembly they'd own the market.  Labor is the biggest cost in aircraft manufacture, and I've heard self proclaimed geniuses before claim they were going to automate the whole thing.  If they could actually do it they could deliver a lot more for a lot less and power it by whatever they want.  I hate to say never,  but I can't see how you automate the assembly of something like an aircraft.  

An airplane is a much simpler machine than a car, problem is there aren’t enough sales to justify the production rate required to pay for they automation, for example Tesla builds 51 cars per hour in California alone last year, and I’m sure the big boys like Toyota blow that number out of the water. 

Tesla is what the 15th auto manufacturer production wise? Yet they may produce two million this year with Berlin and Tx coming online.

 

This is how many cars are built, I’d post the number, but it’s hard to believe, sure that’s over several plants, but still the number is staggering

https://www.autodealertodaymagazine.com/365381/car-production-around-the-world-per-hour-day-and-year

There are more cars produced in one hour than Mooney’s total production?

Edited March 28, 2022 by A64Pilot

[Hank]

Just now, A64Pilot said:

An airplane is a much simpler machine than a car, problem is there aren’t enough sales to justify the production rate required to pay for they automation, for example Tesla builds 51 cars per hour in California alone last year, and I’m sure the big boys like Toyota blow that number out of the water. 

Tesla is what the 15th auto manufacturer production wise? Yet they may produce two million this year with Berlin and Tx coming online.

Just need to acquire some old auto equipment that isn't fast enough any more. Much less expen$ive than buying new!