How is this possible?!!

[aviatoreb]

How is this possible?  A person stores away in the nose wheel well of a big jet in an intercontinental flight.  I presume it is unpressurized in there?  Supposing FL41 or so, no O2 and very very cold - what - -50F or something?  For several hours.  And he lived?!  WOW.  I have read of people doing this and falling out of the wheel well when the landing gear is deployed near the end of the flight and falling on to houses for example near Heathrow - so even if they had not died but presumably unconscious, then the fall gets them.

This fellow at least lived and it just doesn't seem possible.  but it is.  Any flight surgeons here who can discuss?

[N201MKTurbo]

The cold slows your metabolism and reduces your oxygen requirement. When you descend and thaw out, you wake up from your hypoxia induced coma , fall out and get run over by a 500000 pound airliner.

[N201MKTurbo]

So, if you are going to do it, bring a rope to lash yourself to something so you don’t fall out.

[GeeBee]

Do you have link to this incident?

 

[0TreeLemur]

Link here.

AMAZING.

[rbridges]

There's something I'm missing, too. Maybe it's the relatively short duration, maybe the altitude has so mething to do with it, but -40* is friggin cold. If metabolism simply slowed, you'd have a whole bunch of people thawing in the spring instead of dying from hypothermia in the winter. 

[GeeBee]

Wheel wells stay warm for some time due to residual heat from brakes and tires. Hypoxia however is a problem, but it is not necessarily fatal.

 

[Raptor05121]

happens quite often

 

[Fly Boomer]

Also, the guy may be alive but brain dead.  Sometimes political prisoners who refuse food to make their point, eventually die even though they resume eating.  Eventual outcome may not be as it seems.

[carusoam]

Anoxia can be pretty unfriendly….

-a-

[Brandt]

Probably still more comfortable than coach next to the bathroom.  And no mask requirement.  He may be on to something

 

[jaylw314]

On 1/23/2022 at 2:40 PM, aviatoreb said:

How is this possible?  A person stores away in the nose wheel well of a big jet in an intercontinental flight.  I presume it is unpressurized in there?  Supposing FL41 or so, no O2 and very very cold - what - -50F or something?  For several hours.  And he lived?!  WOW.  I have read of people doing this and falling out of the wheel well when the landing gear is deployed near the end of the flight and falling on to houses for example near Heathrow - so even if they had not died but presumably unconscious, then the fall gets them.

This fellow at least lived and it just doesn't seem possible.  but it is.  Any flight surgeons here who can discuss?

There have obviously been ascents of Mt Everest without supplemental oxygen, so it's pretty clear some people can survive the "Death Zone" above 25k' for an extended period of time under heavy physical exertion.  So assuming he wasn't frozen into a popsicle, 11 hours with no activity at a higher altitude is within the realm of possibility.  In the Helios 522 accident where a 737 depressurized and continued on autopilot to FL 34 for about 3 hours, the autopsies suggested all the passengers were still alive at the time of the crash (although presumably all but one unconscious)

We don't really know who is capable of surviving extreme altitude hypoxia and who isn't, it's not strongly tied to training, conditioning or acclimatization.  Presumably some genetic trait but there's no proof of that either AFAIK.  If you're not one of those people and you linger above 25k' without supplemental oxygen for more than a few hours, though, you're pretty much toast.

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

There have obviously been ascents of Mt Everest without supplemental oxygen, so it's pretty clear some people can survive the "Death Zone" above 25k' for an extended period of time under heavy physical exertion.  So assuming he wasn't frozen into a popsicle, 11 hours with no activity at a higher altitude is within the realm of possibility.  In the Helios 522 accident where a 737 depressurized and continued on autopilot to FL 34 for about 3 hours, the autopsies suggested all the passengers were still alive at the time of the crash (although presumably all but one unconscious)

We don't really know who is capable of surviving extreme altitude hypoxia and who isn't, it's not strongly tied to training, conditioning or acclimatization.  Presumably some genetic trait but there's no proof of that either AFAIK.  If you're not one of those people and you linger above 25k' without supplemental oxygen for more than a few hours, though, you're pretty much toast.

Right - I am aware of those rare climbers who have climbed to 29,000 ft without supplemental oxygen.

But that is not nearly as high as 40-42 which is common in 11 hour flights.

And the cold!!!  Without gear.

I am stunned.  I would confidently say it is impossible if I were not so obviously wrong because its been done.

[0TreeLemur]

12 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

I am stunned.  I would confidently say it is impossible if I were not so obviously wrong because its been done.

I would agree.   Suggests that there is something favorable about the conditions in the nose gear well of certain aircraft?

According an article in NYT:

The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration said that between 1947 and November 2021, it recorded 132 people who had tried to hide in the wheel wells or other areas of commercial aircraft worldwide. Of those people, 102, or about 77 percent, died, said Rick Breitenfeldt, an F.A.A. spokesman.

So, about 23% of folks that prefer to travel this way don't die.   They might suffer severe frostbite or live the remainder of their lives with severe physical or cognitive difficulties.   Some probably luck out I guess.  I'd hate to try it.

 

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, 0TreeLemur said:

I would agree.   Suggests that there is something favorable about the conditions in the nose gear well of certain aircraft?

According an article in NYT:

The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration said that between 1947 and November 2021, it recorded 132 people who had tried to hide in the wheel wells or other areas of commercial aircraft worldwide. Of those people, 102, or about 77 percent, died, said Rick Breitenfeldt, an F.A.A. spokesman.

So, about 23% of folks that prefer to travel this way don't die.   They might suffer severe frostbite or live the remainder of their lives with severe physical or cognitive difficulties.   Some probably luck out I guess.  I'd hate to try it.

 

Where's your sense of adventure?

I'm also a little shocked that many people have survived, although it's not clear how many of those were on shorter trips that didn't necessarily reach typical jet airliner cruise altitudes

[aviatoreb]

4 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

I would agree.   Suggests that there is something favorable about the conditions in the nose gear well of certain aircraft?

According an article in NYT:

The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration said that between 1947 and November 2021, it recorded 132 people who had tried to hide in the wheel wells or other areas of commercial aircraft worldwide. Of those people, 102, or about 77 percent, died, said Rick Breitenfeldt, an F.A.A. spokesman.

So, about 23% of folks that prefer to travel this way don't die.   They might suffer severe frostbite or live the remainder of their lives with severe physical or cognitive difficulties.   Some probably luck out I guess.  I'd hate to try it.

 

Yes, and adding to the death rate, some become unconscious but not dead and would perhaps revive upon landing, but when the wheel are deployed, they simply fall out unconscious from a few thousand feet. So removing that significant danger from the bulk statistic you just cited, there may be even more - so I wonder what it is about wheel wells that allows them to survive?

[tgardnerh]

132 people who had tried to hide in the wheel wells or other areas of commercial aircraft worldwide. Of those people, 102, or about 77 percent, died
 

I wonder how many of the survivors snuck into part of the pressurized area like the cargo hold or avionics bay. (Or were on a piston powered flight that never got that high, since the data goes back to the '40s.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk