To upgrade or not to upgrade

[someairforcedude]

So I have an opportunity and trying to figure out if I should take it or not. I just bought the M20E just over a month ago and have an opportunity to trade it for a 305 Rocket and some cash.  I am only 60 hours in, only 5ish in a Mooney so far but have decided that a Mooney is what I am going to keep going long term.  That panel I was going to get put in my M20E made me look at newer planes as another option as I plan on keeping a Mooney for the foreseeable future.  With all of that said, should I go from a 65 M20E to a 83 M20K 305?  I would like to know the pros and cons if you all don't mind sharing.  I have read the way earlier posts from people but would like to get some opinions with anyone that's been flying them over the last 2-3 years.  All things being equal, I can tell you the fuel usage isn't going to bother me in terms of ownership over long term.  Tell me if I should or not and why!  Thanks.

 

Mission:

Going places from Ohio to anywhere on the continent really and getting there fast.  Carry myself, wife and 30lb kid for now - with 60-120lbs of luggage depending on how long we are going for. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by someairforcedude
Mission

[philip_g]

Trade it

[smwash02]

It depends on your mission.

You mention fuel costs, but they'll probably be lower depending how you run it. I am burning the same LOP as I did in my C going 20kts faster at the same altitudes.

Moving from a J bar normally aspirated to a fully electric turbocharged increases your maintenance costs quite a bit when things go wrong and especially when it comes time to overhaul. Expect your insurance to double or triple as well.

[toto]

11 minutes ago, smwash02 said:

Expect your insurance to double or triple as well.

Double or triple the premium based on an increase in hull value? Or is there something inherent in the 305 Rocket that would warrant 3x insurance premiums over an E model?

If they're the same hull value, I would think these two aircraft would be equivalent from an insurance standpoint.  

[someairforcedude]

24 minutes ago, smwash02 said:

It depends on your mission.

You mention fuel costs, but they'll probably be lower depending how you run it. I am burning the same LOP as I did in my C going 20kts faster at the same altitudes.

Moving from a J bar normally aspirated to a fully electric turbocharged increases your maintenance costs quite a bit when things go wrong and especially when it comes time to overhaul. Expect your insurance to double or triple as well.

 

9 minutes ago, toto said:

Double or triple the premium based on an increase in hull value? Or is there something inherent in the 305 Rocket that would warrant 3x insurance premiums over an E model?

If they're the same hull value, I would think these two aircraft would be equivalent from an insurance standpoint.  

For my personal situation insurance is a non factor as well.  It would go up another 50% if I were to switch. Hull value is going to triple.  I guess I am paying out the wazoo for being a low time pilot so its only a 50% increase for me    

Edited November 13, 2021 by someairforcedude

[smwash02]

Just now, toto said:

Double or triple the premium based on an increase in hull value? Or is there something inherent in the 305 Rocket that would warrant 3x insurance premiums over an E model?

If they're the same hull value, I would think these two aircraft would be equivalent from an insurance standpoint.  

Correct -- Based on hull value. When I upgraded from the C to the K, the K was valued a bit more than four times higher and the insurance went up about by a factor of about 2.5. A very fair trade, but something to consider in the TCO.

[toto]

4 minutes ago, smwash02 said:

Correct -- Based on hull value. When I upgraded from the C to the K, the K was valued a bit more than four times higher and the insurance went up about by a factor of about 2.5. A very fair trade, but something to consider in the TCO.

Understood. 

When OP said he could trade the E "and some cash," I kind of assumed that he meant a relatively small amount of cash. But if you're trading an E plus $150k for a Rocket, then yeah... Big premium jump

[ArtVandelay]

If you’re buying a turbo, to take advantage of it you need to fly high, and be on oxygen. If you’re not going to do that on a regular basis, you’re wasting money.

[PJClark]

trade it if you're really in for the long haul--before you spend a bucket of cash on avionics for the E.

But--check its useful load first.  My impression looking at 231-based Rockets is they tend to have higher UL than my 252 based Rocket--sometime in 2020 two of them sold on Controller that each had >1000 lb UL and one was over 1100 lb. That would get it done for you.  But me, wife, a 30 lb kid and 120 lb of baggage in my Rocket would start to put a big pinch on fuel load since I only have 920 UL, which is actually pretty decent for a 252 based Rocket. (and me and wife together only weigh 340 lb dressed to fly)

As far as "wasting money"--depends on what you're "buying". If you're "someairforcedude" with a history of going very fast you're probably buying speed, in which case there is no such consideration as "wasting money"

[201er]

11 hours ago, someairforcedude said:

All things being equal, I can tell you the fuel usage isn't going to bother me in terms of ownership over long term.  Tell me if I should or not and why!  Thanks.

If you can manage the cost of keeping 2 instead of trading, I’d suggest keep the E another 3 months and fly the heck out of it. Lots of pattern work and some cross countries. Then sell it and move to your Rocket. It might just be a bit of a jump to go for it right away. But in order not to pass up on the opportunity, maybe you can buy yourself some E time by keeping both briefly.

[Mooney Dog]

I wanna know who's trading a Rocket + cash for an E. What does that E have?! 

[201er]

21 minutes ago, Mooney Dog said:

I wanna know who's trading a Rocket + cash for an E. What does that E have?! 

A lot of cash lol

[toto]

29 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

You say that speed is your priority and that fuel and insurance (and presumably other) costs are not a factor.   In that case, duh!   Get the Rocket.  

If speed is the priority and fuel, insurance, and cost are no object, I’d go TBM. It’s the only *Mooney that makes any sense. Get a new one - the warranty will help with minor nits. 

[PJClark]

Just for fun:  Rocket speed!

[Austintatious]

I have a few pennies....  The rocket will allow you many more options over your E.   You will be able to find better winds and the extra speed will mitigate headwinds more, avoid icing better, operate in many more different regimes to optimize flights.  I also believe a better climbing aircraft is a safer aircraft.  I also believe the Fully feathering prop is a much better setup on a SE aircraft (I can explain why if you are interested in that).  The TSIO 520 is a great engine, runs very smooth, starts well cold or hot.  The dual batteries give you a little more time in the event of an gen failure.   And it is almost impossible to load too far aft  (however two pilots and no bags can put you out of forward limits.)

 

Get the rocket.  get trained in it.