Schllc Posted October 17, 2021 Report Posted October 17, 2021 I haven’t seen this before in my other planes. Not sure if it’s normal or indicative of a problem. the person who owned it prior to me flew pretty rich of peak, as I can tell from the year or so of uncleared belly.... the left exhaust does not look at all like this, it’s only the right. anyone know what this is? it’s pretty thick inside the exhaust, I’d say close to 1/8” and difficult to scrape off but will with a screwdriver or blade. Quote
mike_elliott Posted October 17, 2021 Report Posted October 17, 2021 Has it had the crank breather SB done, Ray? It looks like oil from the pic, but pics can be misleading. All the lower plugs on the right side look clean? Quote
Schllc Posted October 17, 2021 Author Report Posted October 17, 2021 It has had the sb done, right around the same time as a top, which was about 150 hours ago. 450 total time. I put more time than the total on my first acclaim and didn’t have this much buildup. I haven’t pulled any plugs yet, due for an annual in two weeks. it runs well, all temps, and egts are where you would want them. It does not have gami’s but runs lop well without them. I did not do a prebuy. Will be bringing to Cole Aviation for the annual. Quote
Schllc Posted October 17, 2021 Author Report Posted October 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, Schllc said: It has had the sb done, right around the same time as a top, which was about 150 hours ago. 450 total time. I put more time than the total on my first acclaim and didn’t have this much buildup. I haven’t pulled any plugs yet, due for an annual in two weeks. it runs well, all temps, and egts are where you would want them. It does not have gami’s but runs lop well without them. I did not do a prebuy. Will be bringing to Cole Aviation for the annual. But I don’t fly rop either... Quote
EricJ Posted October 17, 2021 Report Posted October 17, 2021 Does it come off easily? I think I'd try cleaning it off and see if it comes back. 1 Quote
RoundTwo Posted October 18, 2021 Report Posted October 18, 2021 Sure looks like crusty rust, inside and out. Quote
Schllc Posted October 18, 2021 Author Report Posted October 18, 2021 11 minutes ago, RoundTwo said: Sure looks like crusty rust, inside and out. It is not rust Quote
carusoam Posted October 18, 2021 Report Posted October 18, 2021 Let’s invite @M20Doc the conversation… (hard exhaust build up in one pipe of an Acclaim’s exhaust, clean on the other pipe…) Its possible that something turbo related may be getting deposited inside the pipe… or something from one of the three cylinders on that side… Any idea how many hours are on the turbo’s since reseal or total hours? Do the lower spark plugs show anything collecting in the bottom? Oil typically exits without burning completely… Is that a similar discoloration on the outside of the pipe? Got pics of the other pipe, inside and out? PP guesses only, not a mechanic… Best regards, -a- Quote
LANCECASPER Posted October 18, 2021 Report Posted October 18, 2021 Brian Kendrick has worked on as many Acclaims as anyone out there. It wouldn't hurt to give him a call and send him some pictures. http://www.mooneysupport.com/ Quote
RoundTwo Posted October 27, 2021 Report Posted October 27, 2021 I think Mike Busch, in discussing valve sticking, actually describes the condition. @thinwing is probably correct in his lead bromate. About 20:00 in, he discusses condensation onto cooler parts. The exhaust exit would definitely be cool enough for the gaseous components to condense and form deposits. Quote
ArtVandelay Posted October 27, 2021 Report Posted October 27, 2021 I thought lead compound deposits were white? Quote
LANCECASPER Posted October 30, 2021 Report Posted October 30, 2021 On 10/17/2021 at 1:48 PM, Schllc said: I haven’t seen this before in my other planes. Not sure if it’s normal or indicative of a problem. the person who owned it prior to me flew pretty rich of peak, as I can tell from the year or so of uncleared belly.... the left exhaust does not look at all like this, it’s only the right. anyone know what this is? it’s pretty thick inside the exhaust, I’d say close to 1/8” and difficult to scrape off but will with a screwdriver or blade. Is this SB being adhered to closely? https://mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/SBM20-312.pdf Quote
Schllc Posted October 30, 2021 Author Report Posted October 30, 2021 1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said: Is this SB being adhered to closely? https://mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/SBM20-312.pdf No, this SB isn’t relevant. There are two SB’s that address this issue. The one you have referred to requires the recurring inspection, and the other is the rerouting of the breather tube. https://mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/SBM20-319.pdf My plane has the latter which eliminates the need for the inspections. After speaking to a few well respected experts, I’m confident it’s merely the result of very ROP flight. It’s in annual now with Cole Aviation so we will confirm soon enough. 1 Quote
thinwing Posted November 1, 2021 Report Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) On 10/27/2021 at 4:48 PM, ArtVandelay said: I thought lead compound deposits were white? bromine compounds yield reddish to brownish colored deposit depending on phase...looking at his pic and color of the deposits made me think of Busch podcast. Edited November 1, 2021 by thinwing clarity Quote
philip_g Posted November 1, 2021 Report Posted November 1, 2021 Would someone like aviation labs analyze a sample? Quote
carusoam Posted November 2, 2021 Report Posted November 2, 2021 The deposit looks like it is fighting to stay there… in one place the deposit gets erased… as if it is getting washed out… in other places it is building up thicker… It is probably a very specific condition that allows it to build up like that… The other pipe is clean? If it is lead compounds because you want to run extra rich…. Verify the chemistry to make sure it isn’t something else… See Philip_g’s comment above… NA PP thoughts only, not turbo driven… Best regards, -a- Quote
LANCECASPER Posted November 22, 2021 Report Posted November 22, 2021 On 10/29/2021 at 11:21 PM, Schllc said: After speaking to a few well respected experts, I’m confident it’s merely the result of very ROP flight. It’s in annual now with Cole Aviation so we will confirm soon enough. Any outcome on this? The reason I ask is that i just bought 31-0102 late last week, so I am curious if this is something I'll be dealing with down the road. Quote
exM20K Posted November 22, 2021 Report Posted November 22, 2021 3 hours ago, LANCECASPER said: i just bought 31-0102 late last week Congratulations. I have a little of the same on the right exhaust -never really noticed it. The right pipe is much longer and extends outboard more than the left, so maybe the exhaust hitting the pipe that is cooled in the airflow more is at work here? -dan Quote
Schllc Posted November 23, 2021 Author Report Posted November 23, 2021 8 hours ago, LANCECASPER said: Any outcome on this? The reason I ask is that i just bought 31-0102 late last week, so I am curious if this is something I'll be dealing with down the road. It appears to be from a combination of not doing the SB to reroute the breather tube earlier and running excessively rich. While I have less than 1000 hours experience with the tsio550 over four engines, I am pretty convinced that these engines do not endure well over time while being run ROP. Both issues I have had with turbos were right after purchase, and both owners told me they had run exclusively ROP. I prefer to run LOP and the three previous tsio550’s I owned I flew LOP exclusively and the owners, all of who I still speak to also fly LOP, and none of them have had any turbo issues so far. Admittedly, it’s a small sample, but I’m going to fly the new one the same way, until I have evidence to the contrary. Quote
philip_g Posted November 23, 2021 Report Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Schllc said: It appears to be from a combination of not doing the SB to reroute the breather tube earlier and running excessively rich. While I have less than 1000 hours experience with the tsio550 over four engines, I am pretty convinced that these engines do not endure well over time while being run ROP. Both issues I have had with turbos were right after purchase, and both owners told me they had run exclusively ROP. I prefer to run LOP and the three previous tsio550’s I owned I flew LOP exclusively and the owners, all of who I still speak to also fly LOP, and none of them have had any turbo issues so far. Admittedly, it’s a small sample, but I’m going to fly the new one the same way, until I have evidence to the contrary. All I can tell you is the sr22t fleet runs the tsio550k and they run almost exclusively LOP without issue. And often at 85% power. Neither of my turbo mooneys (360lb 520) liked lop. Cirrus advocates a lop climb, even Edited November 23, 2021 by philip_g 1 Quote
exM20K Posted November 23, 2021 Report Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Schllc said: It appears to be from a combination of not doing the SB to reroute the breather tube earlier and running excessively rich. While I have less than 1000 hours experience with the tsio550 over four engines, I am pretty convinced that these engines do not endure well over time while being run ROP. Both issues I have had with turbos were right after purchase, and both owners told me they had run exclusively ROP. I prefer to run LOP and the three previous tsio550’s I owned I flew LOP exclusively and the owners, all of who I still speak to also fly LOP, and none of them have had any turbo issues so far. Admittedly, it’s a small sample, but I’m going to fly the new one the same way, until I have evidence to the contrary. Just took some photos. Mine is similar but less noticeable than yours. Again, left side clean as a whistle, right side with small buildup. I run LOP/SOP except for climb. Been flying that was for 700 hours, and this is how the exhaust has looked from day one. The angle on the right exhaust pipe is much more perpendicular to the airflow and dumps no chalky residue on the belly. The left side is clean in the pipe but leavs quite a bit of chalky residu on the belly. My best guess is that the in-exhaust buildup is an accumulation of the chalky Lead stuff. I borescope both turbos at annual, and they are both fine. It’s just not something that keeps me up at night. the crankcase breather /air-oil separator tube is on the left side, so it has nothing to do with that. Three shots of the right and one of the left attached. -dan Edited November 23, 2021 by exM20K Quote
Schllc Posted November 23, 2021 Author Report Posted November 23, 2021 1 hour ago, exM20K said: Just took some photos. Mine is similar but less noticeable than yours. Again, left side clean as a whistle, right side with small buildup. I run LOP/SOP except for climb. Been flying that was for 700 hours, and this is how the exhaust has looked from day one. The angle on the right exhaust pipe is much more perpendicular to the airflow and dumps no chalky residue on the belly. The left side is clean in the pipe but leavs quite a bit of chalky residu on the belly. My best guess is that the in-exhaust buildup is an accumulation of the chalky Lead stuff. I borescope both turbos at annual, and they are both fine. It’s just not something that keeps me up at night. the crankcase breather /air-oil separator tube is on the left side, so it has nothing to do with that. Three shots of the right and one of the left attached. -dan I was told the transition tube was on the right side, not the left. I knew the breather is on the left. Ill confirm this with Cole tomorrow. that’s interesting that we both have the build up on the right. the owner before me accumulated all of that buildup in the last 12 months. Quote
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