interior / insulation / SB208

[tmo]

We wanted to run headset wire to the rear seats and refresh the interior a bit. Read Bruce's guide, bought cans of SEM cleaner, paint, this, that and the other things. Pulled most of the interior and had to go get the real masks due to the amount of mildew in the foam used for insulation. Looks like SB-208 time. Here come the questions:

 - What is the trick to remove the two (?) roof plastic panels? Can't seem to figure it out, and don't want to break anything I don't have to, but I do want to clean / paint them.

 - The primer on the steel frame is flaking off; I plan to clean it all up with steel wool and apply epoxy primer. Will that work? Any tricks to get enough of the primer on the outside parts of the frame (blocked by the aluminum skins), or just a small brush and lots of patience?

 - Is "aluminum tape" we're supposed to use instead of duct tape the stuff they use on chimneys, etc? Looks like the kitchen stuff on a ~1" wide roll, with some glue on one side.

 - What do I use to replace the fiberglass with, and how much of it do I need (whole plane, firewall to baggage compartment)? Thing is, I'd prefer to source something locally than wait for a shipment from a MSC, Spruce or another US source, but if I must wait, I will. From a post by @PT20J I understand the stuff from Mooney is closed cell soundproofing foam from Buckley + mylar, someone recommended SoundEx from Spruce, but I can try to source some "Ensolite" (or equivalent) and run with that, correct? Asking, because Ensolite seems to be a US trade name and we likely call it something else here.

 - 208 says the new stuff is not supposed to touch the steel frame - does it mean I glue it to the skins? Use the 3M Dual Lock stuff? Use aluminum tape?

What else do I do, if I'm this deep into the plane? No new windows, but I'll tint the ones I have (thanks @Skates97) but if I can source parts needed to do something that makes sense in reasonable time, why not.

[PilotX]

The trick to removing the interior is something I should have written down. A lot of screw-ing around (pun only partially intended). In mine the forward panel was held on by only a few screws but it is heavy because I have O2 plumbing in there so it is a two-person job. You will likely break something, it is nearly inevitable. Get a repair kit from Plane Plastics so that you are prepared in advance. 

For fiberglass removal it should just come right off. I replaced all of my fiberglass with SoundEx which can make things a bit more snug up there so plan ahead. It was pretty much wedged in there but I added 2" aluminum tape to keep it in place.

I did pull all the panels, clean them and repainted them light gray using SEM paint. Few months later it is holding up but I am careful because I don't want to pull panels for touchups. I still have nightmares about trying to remove stuff without breaking it, the plastic gets brittle.

Good luck.

[tmo]

Thanks, @PilotX - removing the side panels was relatively trivial, but the two ceiling ones are a mystery. Any hints on those two?

In my K the O2 stuff is on the side, so it just stayed put.

To make the SoundEx stay put, you cut it tightly, and then alu-taped it do the skins, correct?

edit: also, how much of which SoundEx did you end up using and did you do the whole plane (firewall to baggage compartment)?

Edited August 25, 2021 by tmo

[PilotX]

I made cardboard cutouts and then cut the Soundex. They have patterns for some airframes. I cut them to fit tight, then taped them. I believe I used three sheets, I did the entire luggage compartment, the roof and the hat rack (except for the bottom). The SB kit had already been done with the Mylar stuff on the sides so I left it as it was. 
As far as the headliner there was one big screw that held up everything initially. After that it was 8000 or so little screws. 

[anthonydesmet]

I just pulled and repaired/repainted my interior last summer.  Echo the comments above.  Side panels are easy.  Do yourself a favor and repair all wholes around the windows and when you put the panels back use as little screws as possible.  I now only have four screws in each upper side panel (got that advice from Bruce Y).  The other thing I did (per Bruce's recommendation) is for the two headliner panels I kept the forward one in place and I dropped the rear one.  The rear one I dropped and hung with three extra large/long zip ties (strapped to the top bar and looped around the vent hoses) to keep the vent hoses in place and wires. When finished I also just tightened the zip ties up and inserted four screws to hang it again.  Zip ties keep the headliner nice and high in the cockpit.  Then I taped off the entire interior with paper and masking tape.  I was able to do all plastic repair, plastic cleaning and paining (have a fan going inside and take plenty of breaks).  Having helped a friend takeout and install the headliners this was way worth the taping effort because once you get the headliners out it is 10 x more difficult to put them back in.  I used a little of everything to repair my plastic depending on how bad the repair was and what kind of access I had.  Some from Plane Plastics, some from Bruce Yeager's plastic repair kit and some others I found on you tube, etc.  Let me know if you want to discuss further.

[tmo]

Thanks Anthony; I get your comment about doing the top ones in place, but I see some yellow stuff that looks like the fiberglass above the top panels, and I'd like to replace it with whatever I end up going with (SoundEx most likely). Perhaps just dropping them somewhat will be enough.

I'm sure I'll have more questions when I start the actual work, I'll be sure to ping you here.

Any idea how much of which SoundEx I need?

[anthonydesmet]

1 minute ago, tmo said:

Thanks Anthony; I get your comment about doing the top ones in place, but I see some yellow stuff that looks like the fiberglass above the top panels, and I'd like to replace it with whatever I end up going with (SoundEx most likely). Perhaps just dropping them somewhat will be enough.

I'm sure I'll have more questions when I start the actual work, I'll be sure to ping you here.

Any idea how much of which SoundEx I need?

Ahh good point.  I didn't correlate the insulation removal in the top....I dropped the rear headliner to repair some cracks.  If you end up taking out both headliners, you should be able to use the zip tie method to hang the panels in place as you reconnect hoses and wires then cinch up to screw in the panels. Regardless - the headliners a pain.

[tmo]

Yeah, it was supposed to be a simple "paint the plastics with SEM while running some audio cables" job that escalated quickly.

[Shadrach]

On 8/25/2021 at 1:34 PM, tmo said:

Thanks Anthony; I get your comment about doing the top ones in place, but I see some yellow stuff that looks like the fiberglass above the top panels, and I'd like to replace it with whatever I end up going with (SoundEx most likely). Perhaps just dropping them somewhat will be enough.

I'm sure I'll have more questions when I start the actual work, I'll be sure to ping you here.

Any idea how much of which SoundEx I need?

I used 1/2” Super Sound Proofing with peel and stick adhesive.  3M adhesive remover does an excellent job of removing the old glue. For the ceiling panels in my 67F, I simply wrapped Super Sound Proofing in ultraSuede and glued it to the ceiling with 3M 77. Still holding strong after 14 years. 

I will go through my email and see if I can find my spruce invoice from 2008.

[tmo]

2 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

For the ceiling panels in my 67F, I simply wrapped Soundex in ultraSuede and glued it to the ceiling

As in, you got rid of the original plastic panels?

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, tmo said:

As in, you got rid of the original plastic panels?

Negative. The “Executive” Has a padded ceiling (which is apropos for me)... there is a plastic centerpiece that houses all of the ventilation and overhead lights. The steel cage he’s covered by plastic trim that comes off of the centerpiece. There are upholstered padded squares in between the trimmed cage tubes. I ditched the old upholstered foam padding and replaced it with 1” thick closed cell foam upholstered in UltraSuede. My airplane is a bit quieter then it was before but one must understand that bar was set very low... what’s been most notable is how much warmer the cabin is. It still has hotspots but I can keep the whole cabin warm (especially if I’m willing to sweat up front) in sub freezing temps.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Shadrach

[1980Mooney]

2 hours ago, tmo said:

As in, you got rid of the original plastic panels?

I recommend trying to preserve/repair the existing Royalite headliner.  The holes are drilled in the right places - it is trimmed to fit.  All the duct fittings are attached.  Look at this past topic for pictures of a J model of that basic vintage.  It is the same as the K.  Replacing the plastic panels or headliner with new plastic increases your work by about a factor of 10 in my experience.  The parts manual is not a big help because it does not show any screws or fastening points.

 

[tmo]

Thanks for referencing that thread - I even have it in my "followed" list but missed it. Will review in the AM.

I am keeping the plastics, they are in fairly good shape - the original idea was to just clean them up and paint them with SEM.

Unfortunately SB-208 reared it's ugly head at me, so here I am trying to order the right kind and amount of replacement foam That original fiberglass stuff is awful!

[carusoam]

Whilst the ceiling is out…

Have a good look at the air vent control in the roof… and it’s drain tube….

Clean, adjust, replace, as needed…

-a-

[tmo]

For future reference, the Ensolite that Foam Mart sells for such jobs is Ensolite IV-1 (PVC-NBR-CR).

[M20F-1968]

The aluminum foil tape to be used is:  3M ALUMINUM FOIL TAPE 425, 3" wide.  It is sold on Aircraft Spuce's web site.  

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/3malumifoiltape.php

The aircraft insulation to use is made by Soundex, also sold by Aircraft Spruce.  It comes in sheets in various thicknesses.  Hold it in mechanically, as opposed to using adhesives, so it can be taken out for inspections and maintenance.  The web site is:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/soundex7.php

John Breda