GAMI 100 UL

[N201MKTurbo]

24 minutes ago, EricJ said:

In their Q&A document that Anthony posted earlier it says "Orange or Amber", and the pics in the pdf posted above show an amber color, not unlike the "straw" color of JetA.

 

[aviatoreb]

43 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Someone else must have noticed - on the left that looks like a pee sample at the docs office.

[N201MKTurbo]

5 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Someone else must have noticed - on the left that looks like a pee sample at the docs office.

You need to drink more water...

[N201MKTurbo]

5 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Someone else must have noticed - on the left that looks like a pee sample at the docs office.

I wonder what it smells like? 100LL smells good to me. Mogas smells awful these days. I suspect G100UL will not smell good.

[Greg Ellis]

Not sure if anyone has posted this but here is George Braly’s press conference at Oshkosh regarding Gami’s UL fuel.

 

[aviatoreb]

9 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

You need to drink more water...

Doh!

I didn’t mean mine of course.

Mine looks like the cup on the right.

e

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Yeah, like that.   And given the variations in dye concentration in fuels, both gasoline and turbine, it looks like there's potential for them to not be well differentiated visually if the dye concentration in the 100UL was low.

I've seen some JetA with more dye that had a lot more color, so...?

 

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I wonder what it smells like? 100LL smells good to me. Mogas smells awful these days. I suspect G100UL will not smell good.

This is why I smell my samples, even if they look blue-ish.   100LL has that sweet-ish smell, but mogas or JetA stink.   Even if there's not enough contamination to see visually, the smell is often distinct.   Since the 100UL is still essentially gasoline, I'd expect to smell like avgas, at least I hope so.    If it stinks, too, and even if it smells a little bit like JetA, that could be problematic.

 

[WaynePierce]

18 hours ago, carusoam said:

Hmmmmmm….

This brings up another challenge that we have seen in the past…

The cost of machinery to handle different grades of av gas….

 

My home drome has two tanks…. Jet fuel and 100LL…

Probably would need another tank and pump system…?  Truck for delivery around the airport…    Truck for delivering to the airport?

 

Hopefully… there is some saving when going away from lead chemistry… that stuff isn’t low cost…

Best regards,

-a-

Someone else has probably already answered this, but the Chemical Engineer that was being interviewed by, I think, AOPA, said the fuel, when certified, could mix with existing 100LL with no negative reactions and burn equally well whether it's a blend or straight. So if an FBO chooses to switch to this 100UL they could just add it to their existing tanks.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

Yeah, like that.   And given the variations in dye concentration in fuels, both gasoline and turbine, it looks like there's potential for them to not be well differentiated visually if the dye concentration in the 100UL was low.

I've seen some JetA with more dye that had a lot more color, so...?

 

This is why I smell my samples, even if they look blue-ish.   100LL has that sweet-ish smell, but mogas or JetA stink.   Even if there's not enough contamination to see visually, the smell is often distinct.   Since the 100UL is still essentially gasoline, I'd expect to smell like avgas, at least I hope so.    If it stinks, too, and even if it smells a little bit like JetA, that could be problematic.

 

I’m thinking it’s going to smell more like lacquer thinner, we will see.

[GeeBee]

17 minutes ago, WaynePierce said:

Someone else has probably already answered this, but the Chemical Engineer that was being interviewed by, I think, AOPA, said the fuel, when certified, could mix with existing 100LL with no negative reactions and burn equally well whether it's a blend or straight. So if an FBO chooses to switch to this 100UL they could just add it to their existing tanks.

 

That is correct. It mixes right in. There is no need for new handling equipment either. As far as transportation goes, we already truck avgas long distances, it is too small a product to go pipeline so the transportation costs will be about the same once production gets ramped up at differing locations.

[0TreeLemur]

Wow- piston sonic boom???   Watching this video, at about 6:47, simultaneous with the occurrence of high-speed piston aircraft noise are two low frequency thumps.   Probably wind noise on the mic, and there is some in this video, but could a piston aircraft in a dive with mach shocks over the wing produce a sonic boom?   Any thoughts?

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2021/july/27/gami-receives-unleaded-avgas-stc

[GeeBee]

I think given they used a Cirrus SR 22 for their primary research vehicle that IO-550 and TIO-550 Mooney's are going to get a pretty quick nod on the AML.

 

[Schllc]

33 minutes ago, 0TreeLemur said:

Wow- piston sonic boom???   Watching this video, at about 6:47, simultaneous with the occurrence of high-speed piston aircraft noise are two low frequency thumps.   Probably wind noise on the mic, and there is some in this video, but could a piston aircraft in a dive with mach shocks over the wing produce a sonic boom?   Any thoughts?

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2021/july/27/gami-receives-unleaded-avgas-stc

This was in a war bird, in a casual aerobatics maneuvering dive , not trying to maximize speed, without someone shooting and nowhere near combat load. 
I would be willing to bet more than one broke the sound barrier in ww2 and never knew it. 
whether the plane survived it is another question. 

[0TreeLemur]

18 hours ago, Schllc said:

This was in a war bird, in a casual aerobatics maneuvering dive , not trying to maximize speed, without someone shooting and nowhere near combat load. 
I would be willing to bet more than one broke the sound barrier in ww2 and never knew it. 
whether the plane survived it is another question. 

 

I believe it is a sonic boom!  Watched that video again, and there is another instance at 5:23 that sounds identical to the one at 6:47.  That's just too much coincidence for it to be wind noise on the mic.  Wow.  Anybody at Osh notice regular sonic booms?  Maybe microphones are more sensitive to them than ears with the background noise of engines?

Fascinating pic.  Compressibility effects on pitot-tubes.  Stagnation temperature and heat flux reduce the stagnation pressure reading for M>0.8 if I remember correctly, meaning that the ASI under-indicates.  

[Shiny moose]

I hope that Im interpeting this wrong, 

Gami wants the supply of 100LL at airports and trucks and storage diluted with thier G100UL, then you must buy from them an STC to use their fuel  or your not airworthy.  I really hope thats not the direction aviation is moving and smarter folks will have better solutions. 

[carusoam]

Shiny,

read that again…

I think you will be pleasantly surprised… 

 

There is soooo much to learn about actual experience of this fuel…

Its going to take some time before we see it…

Best regards,

-a-

[Will.iam]

Anybody know if gami is a public traded company and what the stock ticker symbol is?

[carusoam]

40 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Anybody know if gami is a public traded company and what the stock ticker symbol is?

They were a relatively small company with a few key players…

https://gami.com/about/about.php

 

I’m sure CMI (Continental) would love to add them to their current list of small aviation companies…

CMI just announced their acquisition of one of the pre-heat companies….

CMI has been owned by a large foreign entity for a while…

 

Best regards,

-a-

[Will.iam]

13 hours ago, carusoam said:

They were a relatively small company with a few key players…

https://gami.com/about/about.php

 

I’m sure CMI (Continental) would love to add them to their current list of small aviation companies…

CMI just announced their acquisition of one of the pre-heat companies….

CMI has been owned by a large foreign entity for a while…

 

Best regards,

-a-

Figures. By the time i could buy stock they will have been bought / merged with a bigger company and the larger company stock will not move up as much. 

[carusoam]

18 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Figures. By the time i could buy stock they will have been bought / merged with a bigger company and the larger company stock will not move up as much. 

To do any better than that would be considered a form of insider trading…. 

+1 for finding out who the owners really are in the event they have gone public without any fanfare…

There is a strong push for oil companies to boost their ESG credit… eliminating atmospheric and ground water Pb will go a long way as this fuel proves itself out over the years…

Oil companies have been out of favor for years… they could use some good eco-friendly businesses…

PP thoughts only, not an investment advisor…

Best regards,

-a-

[GeeBee]

I don't know how the business end of this will turn out, but if George Braly and Tim Roehl end up docking their yacht next to Bezos in Nice, I say.......good on them!

Those two guys have been working on this problem doggedly for 14 years. When big oil teamed up with the FAA they walked away because the ground rules (you can't change the formulation once you submitted it for testing. The way the FAA had the program set up would have been like a competition to develop an incandescent bulb, but you could not change the filament material if it did not pass the tests. (How many did Edison try?). The results were exactly what GAMI predicted, failure.

They built the one of only two test cells in the world that could carry out the research needed. No taxpayer money. I have only done business with GAMI only once, but their product (injectors) was solid, the pricing fair and customer service was fabulous. GAMI has done more for General Aviation engines than just about anybody, and saving us all a lot of money and trouble along the way.

Yeah, it is going to cost more, but I predict the benefits will be huge. Especially when unleaded becomes ubiquitous and we can start using synthetic oil. Less maintenance, longer ranges. The difference in lubrication drag between Dino oil and full synthetic is huge, in my diesel truck it is worth 1-2mpg. 

[EricJ]

5 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Figures. By the time i could buy stock they will have been bought / merged with a bigger company and the larger company stock will not move up as much. 

I think there's still an awful lot of risk involved.   I don't think it's a sure thing that this stuff will be successful, especially since there are still other efforts pending that may have more industry buy-in.

 

[Will.iam]

I’m not saying I’d bet the farm but 1000 shares to ride the wave. I bought apple at $15 per share before Steve jobs came back. Just $5k worth tickled pink when i sold it for $45,000 making 9 times what i invested in. Now today i cry as i would be retired and could be flying in an acclaim or ultra.  Ah the naivety of youth and thinking i could do better timing the market than time IN the market. 

[Will.iam]

Had i only known or read about Buffet back then. 

[N201MKTurbo]

16 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Had i only known or read about Buffet back then. 

I have a few shares of his company...