M20J Turning Radius Question

[Peter Rejto]

The manual states that the J's min turning radius is 12.3 meters. What isn't stated is where the radius measurement stops - I would assume at the nose gear, but  more reasonably at the outer main gear. Is this a valid assumption? Does anyone know what the turn radius is to the outer gear?

I've built a new hangar with a 9 x 15m apron but I will need to add more concrete due to the slope of the ground up to the ramp and due to a large lip where the apron ends. The other issue is that I need to back the airplane into the hangar. Fortunately I have a Best Tugs with a lazy susan, but even so I will run out of ramp space as I attempt to rotate the plane from a position horizontal to the hangar. Anyway, I'm hoping that I can work out something from the turn radius.

Thanks!

Peter

[carusoam]

Peter that construction looks beautiful!

A few points to consider…

I see a metal pole awfully close to the moving surface…

Wings are not accounted for in the turn radius…

Use caution as you get used to all the new surface, new tug, and new procedures….   
 

There are two turn radii…

Right is better than Left… (from fuzzy memory)

11° Left, 13° Right… nose wheel angles…. (Ground handling, towing, data in the M20R POH)

Turning radius 40’ right, 48’ left…   A U-turn should take 2X that if you don’t rush… drag the brake on the inside wheel judiciously…

expect the geometry to be measured following the outside wheel…

So… if you start with the wheel on the edge of the pavement… apply full rudder pedal to one side…. Creep forwards slowly…..

 

Done in a rush, the nose wheel will slide, and the turn will no longer match the books…

 

But… that is all while the nose gear is on the ground…

If you lift the nose gear off the ground…. You can turn the plane 90° Left or Right… and pivot around one of the MLGs….

In that case…. The M20R pivoting around one MLG… would scribe a radius that is 9’ 2” if you keep that MLG from moving very far…

Applying the brakes might scrub some rubber off the wheel… but not much…

I memorized the numbers once… to use in places where a U-turn is required at the end of the runway…

One problem… Wing tips and snow banks are not included in the calculations… 

 

Interesting question…

Thanks for buying a Best Tug… Watching Mark and Mike Paty build machines makes interesting YT TV…. 
 

Show a pic of the Best Tug with the Susan on it…

Send this question to Mark Patey with a copy of the three-view from your POH… and a layout of your paved surface…

I think there is a challenge with how big the tug is when moving the plane and the tug together…

Scaled drawings and paper dolls…. Usually get used in the machine moving business….   
 

Using a tug to do anything more than go forwards and backwards is like backing a boat down a boat ramp…. Add a turn into the mix… that requires practice, knowledge, and some skill…

Painted lines will probably help…  an physical fences to keep your wheels from going to close to the house…. Small steel curbs used in some hangars… to guide the wheels to keep wings from contacting things…

Best regards,

-a-

[mike_elliott]

Peter, looks great. Anthony is correct on the turn limits. Feel free to let me invite myself and Alice to visit once the insanity has subsided

[Peter Rejto]

Anthony,

Thanks for your detailed reply! I am going to do some tests with the hand tow bar and chalk. My plan is to always enter the apron from the right, that is, not from the house side to eliminate prop blast. I'm hoping I can then end up parallel to the hangar with the nose facing the house. Unfortunately, that means making a left turn.... What happens next depends on how I add to the current geometry of the apron. More photos coming of tug and ramp.

Mike.  Great to hear from you and yes you and Alice must visit soon, well ASAP assuming someday the CV will abate. Currently Sydney is in the beginnings of a total mess after a year of almost normal living. I think we are in for a great battle brought on by lack of vaccine and bad decisions by government. Time will tell.

Here is a photo that shows why we picked this spot!

Edited July 29, 2021 by Peter Rejto

[mike_elliott]

Very Nice! Peter, I wont show this pic to Alice as she will be booking tix C19 or not!

[GeeBee]

1 hour ago, Peter Rejto said:

Anthony,

Thanks for your detailed reply! I am going to do some tests with the hand tow bar and chalk. My plan is to always enter the apron from the right, that is, not from the house side to eliminate prop blast. I'm hoping I can then end up parallel to the hangar with the nose facing the house. Unfortunately, that means making a left turn.... What happens next depends on how I add to the current geometry of the apron. More photos coming of tug and ramp.

Mike.  Great to hear from you and yes you and Alice must visit soon, well ASAP assuming someday the CV will abate. Currently Sydney is in the beginnings of a total mess after a year of almost normal living. I think we are in for a great battle brought on by lack of vaccine and bad decisions by government. Time will tell.

Here is a photo that shows why we picked this spot!

Nice! Sometime I will PM you my story of a drive through the Putty Forest!

[Peter Rejto]

I spent a few hours experimenting and happily discovered that I will  be able to get away without adding nearly as much concrete as I originally envisioned. With the Best Tug if I get the mains on the apron I can pretty much do a 180 quite easily.

Peter

[carusoam]

That must be the reason they got named…. Best Tug!  

 

Best regards,

-a-

[Peter Rejto]

One final view.

I'd like to extend an invitation to Mooney pilots wishing to fly in Australia once covid abates. Be in touch and possibly we can work out something. My "N" registry means no license other than FAA is required!

Peter

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Peter Rejto

[KB4]

Looks like plenty of room to me. Only change I would Relocate the 1 pergola post closer to house. 

[Peter Rejto]

8 hours ago, KB4 said:

Looks like plenty of room to me. Only change I would Relocate the 1 pergola post closer to house. 

Good one. I told my builder that this morning and I should have photographed his expression! I'm not worried at all about that post as I never intend to enter or exit the ramp in that direction (East). 

Peter

[A64Pilot]

I learned to shut down prior to entering the drive way for the hangar, and use the tug to back in, otherwise there was a lot of excessive backing and turning to get the airplane into the hangar, I use a golf cart as a tug, so I’m limited to the nose gear stops.

If you back in, then there is only the one turn and your lined up to go in the hanger way back away from anything to hit.

This pic is when I first brought her home and is tight as I can get it if I pull in 

 

[Peter Rejto]

We finally moved in about a month ago but there was no way to get the plane on the ramp until some turf went in and took root.  A few days ago the plane was finally in a new home! Now if it would just stop raining....

Peter

 

[Mooney in Oz]

10 hours ago, Peter Rejto said:

We finally moved in about a month ago but there was no way to get the plane on the ramp until some turf went in and took root.  A few days ago the plane was finally in a new home! Now if it would just stop raining....

Peter

 

Congratulations Peter. Looks great!!