FAA and non-aviation hangar use

[M20F]

I keep a herd of Llamas in my hanger, no issues yet. 

[StevenL757]

55 minutes ago, M20F said:

I keep a herd of Llamas in my hanger, no issues yet. 

…until their annual inspections are due.

[Guest]

I’m confused, are we talking about hangers or hangars?

[ZuluZulu]

7 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

There was a fire in one of our hangars that destroyed two hangars and two planes. The city made everybody clean out their hangars. we filled up 10 full sized roll off dumpsters. I'm good with the rule. One of the hangars that burned was full of file boxes full of paper and it was the main fuel in the fire.

The airport authority at my airport just conducted inspections for fire hazards and to verify aviation uses of each and every hangar in our complex.  Airport staff was accompanied by local firefighters.  I was happy to see them taking this seriously!

[M20F]

44 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I’m confused, are we talking about hangers or hangars?

Hangers are for losers, winners use the door. 

[Larry]

The below is from the FAA Hangar Use Policy.  It would be great if the airport managers would comply.  

[Raptor05121]

2 hours ago, ZuluZulu said:

The airport authority at my airport just conducted inspections for fire hazards and to verify aviation uses of each and every hangar in our complex.  Airport staff was accompanied by local firefighters.  I was happy to see them taking this seriously!

My previous manager did this too. Mailed out a month's notice beforehand. Came by to check fire extinguishers and entry/exit and make sure not storing flammables inappropriately. Him and the Fire Chief came by. We talked airplanes and got to point out the basics of airplanes to the firefighters (fuel tank location, octane rating, aluminum thickness). It was good camaraderie.

[A64Pilot]

Just going to throw this out there.

‘If you take what I hear some of you guys pay for hanger space and put that towards a house payment that has a hanger as a part of it, it solves a whole lot of issues, You can store anything you want to, wife and kids are feet away, you come home and if you want to go fly, you don’t have to drive anywhere to do so, there are no airport managers or whatever to deal with, you neighbors are all airplane nuts too.

I used to think that living in an air park was beyond my means, but by the time you put hanger rent towards a mortgage payment it becomes less expensive than you may think, and believe it or not but you spend not an insignificant amount of money and time and wear and tear etc on your vehicle driving back and forth to the airport, most likely, and many times you don’t go because it’s such a hassle and or takes most of the day with travel time both ways etc.

Assuming of course there is such a place near enough to your work for it to make sense, if not once retired, you can move to one.

Edited June 9, 2021 by A64Pilot

[Shadrach]

11 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

Ok...  One of my examples was inaccurate... So, are you in favor of people raiding hangars are "cheap storage", all the while real pilots with real planes rot on waiting lists?  

Aviation already faces public animosity.  Cities allow construction of million$ houses just next to airport property, and then those "rich" people complain about noise.  Social media graduates complain about "safety" as if they had any hard data or real concerns.  Now, imagine all those hangars being filled with junk, no more planes flying, and how much would it take the federal government to withdraw funding or cities to shut down airports due to "disuse"?  

It was a joke dude...and a funny one.

[N201MKTurbo]

17 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

It was a joke dude...and a funny one.

BTW, 

I wish it was a joke. Have you been to “beautiful” CA lately?

[PeteMc]

This thread just happened to catch my eye, I was on an AOPA ASN Hangar webinar earlier.  Here are a couple of things I took away tonight (though I do not have a hangar).

It looks like @Larry posted the FAA regs.  They apply if there is Federal money given to the airport.  Also, for a short period there were much stricter rules (could not build a plane in a hangar, no fridge, no chairs, etc.), but those have been changed.  So if your Apt Manager spots off some really strict FAA rule, make sure s/he has the latest info and is not going off the stricter rules.  But they do have to follow the Federal rules if they take Fed. money.

Also make sure you're fully aware of what is in your lease.  Over the years a lot of people keep "adding" to what's in their hangar.  Even on a private airport you might be in violation of your lease.  Also make sure you know what happens at the end of your lease or at the end of the last renewal you're eligible for. 

The other BIG issue that is hitting TX and apparently moving to other city/states is fire suppression.  There are updated building codes which are looking at hangars in a different light.  Also fire inspections are changing and a lot of people are getting grief for having a case of oil just sitting out on the floor or a shelf.

So a lot going on that those of you that have hangars should be aware of and watching out for.  AOPA is apparently trying to reign some of these crazy things in, but everyone needs to be aware.

 

Now if anyone knows anything about free standing hangars that could be put on a ramp, I'm trying to get more info.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 minute ago, PeteMc said:

This thread just happened to catch my eye, I was on an AOPA ASN Hangar webinar earlier.  Here are a couple of things I took away tonight (though I do not have a hangar).

It looks like @Larry posted the FAA regs.  They apply if there is Federal money given to the airport.  Also, for a short period there were much stricter rules (could not build a plane in a hangar, no fridge, no chairs, etc.), but those have been changed.  So if your Apt Manager spots off some really strict FAA rule, make sure s/he has the latest info and is not going off the stricter rules.  But they do have to follow the Federal rules if they take Fed. money.

Also make sure you're fully aware of what is in your lease.  Over the years a lot of people keep "adding" to what's in their hangar.  Even on a private airport you might be in violation of your lease.  Also make sure you know what happens at the end of your lease or at the end of the last renewal you're eligible for. 

The other BIG issue that is hitting TX and apparently moving to other city/states is fire suppression.  There are updated building codes which are looking at hangars in a different light.  Also fire inspections are changing and a lot of people are getting grief for having a case of oil just sitting out on the floor or a shelf.

So a lot going on that those of you that have hangars should be aware of and watching out for.  AOPA is apparently trying to reign some of these crazy things in, but everyone needs to be aware.

 

Now if anyone knows anything about free standing hangars that could be put on a ramp, I'm trying to get more info.

I hate to say it, but at our field, there is a wide chasm between the lease and reality. 
 

Paying your bills on time and not pissing off the city people are way more important than any words in that lease.     

[carusoam]

Pete,

there are a couple of hangar manufacturers that get mentioned around here...

Every now and then one will come up for free...

The cost is moving it...

That comes after having a place to take it to...

Check with your local airports to see if they offer land leases for that...

... there is probably plenty of guidance too...  otherwise the airport looks like a hodgepodge of a low rent district...  where nothing matches and everything looks like it’s in mild disrepair...

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

[Shadrach]

20 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

BTW, 

I wish it was a joke. Have you been to “beautiful” CA lately?

I have. I’ll be heading out next month to backpack the Sierra for five days . I lived in the bay for a number of years. SF had major challenges when I was there 15 years ago… I’ve watched things get steadily worse instead of better since. I guess in California you technically can “camp” anywhere now. If slamming fentanyl is acceptable in public, what’s the harm in pitching a tent?

Edited June 9, 2021 by Shadrach

[PT20J]

Seems simple to me:

Hangars for airplanes

Garages for cars

Storage units for stuff

If they are interchangeable, why would they have different names?

[FlyingDude]

9 hours ago, Shadrach said:

joke

Yeah, I know. But I was so worked up, I couldn't even have laughed at Monty python...

[FlyingDude]

9 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Have you been to “beautiful” CA lately?

Last time was 2018. The cable car was exquisite. $300+tip dinner in Napa was ok. The duck liver was great but the rest of the food wasn't worth it...

But then in SF I found a free parking spot right in front of the hotel but was told to park in a structure across the street for $50/night because, you know, break ins by you-know-who. My wife with my then baby daughter in her arms got charged at by a you-know-who who ran at her to ask for a change, but we were all spooked up. In San Jose, the 4 mile drive from hotel to supplier office was taking 40+ minutes so I said fuck it and walked and got there before colleagues. So yeah, I guess I should visit the other spots that are worthy of the name and the fame...

[FlyingDude]

10 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

air park

Wife brought it up actually after I told her about Linden, MI south of Flint. School district is an issue. She also loves our little town... Maybe one day.

I used to go to KY for work. I'd love to move the south east. NOT Florida, but TN or KY. Who knows? One day?

[N201MKTurbo]

Just now, FlyingDude said:

Last time was 2018. The cable car was exquisite. $300+tip dinner in Napa was ok. The suck liver was great but the rest of the food wasn't worth it...

But then I found a free parking spot right in front of the hotel but was told to park in a structure across the street for $50/night because, you know, break ins by you-know-who. My wife with my then baby daughter in her arms got charged at by a you-know-who who ran at her to ask for a change, but we were all spooked up. In San Jose, the 4 mile drive from hotel to supplier office was taking 40+ minutes so I said fuck it and walked and got there before colleagues. So yeah, I guess I should visit the other spots that are worthy of the name and the fame...

Oh, the good old days.....

Its much worse now!

[Will.iam]

15 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Just going to throw this out there.

‘If you take what I hear some of you guys pay for hanger space and put that towards a house payment that has a hanger as a part of it, it solves a whole lot of issues, You can store anything you want to, wife and kids are feet away, you come home and if you want to go fly, you don’t have to drive anywhere to do so, there are no airport managers or whatever to deal with, you neighbors are all airplane nuts too.

I used to think that living in an air park was beyond my means, but by the time you put hanger rent towards a mortgage payment it becomes less expensive than you may think, and believe it or not but you spend not an insignificant amount of money and time and wear and tear etc on your vehicle driving back and forth to the airport, most likely, and many times you don’t go because it’s such a hassle and or takes most of the day with travel time both ways etc.

Assuming of course there is such a place near enough to your work for it to make sense, if not once retired, you can move to one.

yes I highly recommend an airpark.  Speaking of which, Mine is opening up 6-10 lots for sale in the next year time frame or as soon as they get them replotted for housing with the city.  Would love for more mooney pilots to come in.  5TX0 on the map www.hiddenvalleyairpark.org  close to DFW and lewisville lake for boating too.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Will.iam
added website address

[cwaters]

16 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Just going to throw this out there.

‘If you take what I hear some of you guys pay for hanger space and put that towards a house payment that has a hanger as a part of it, it solves a whole lot of issues, You can store anything you want to, wife and kids are feet away, you come home and if you want to go fly, you don’t have to drive anywhere to do so, there are no airport managers or whatever to deal with, you neighbors are all airplane nuts too.

I used to think that living in an air park was beyond my means, but by the time you put hanger rent towards a mortgage payment it becomes less expensive than you may think, and believe it or not but you spend not an insignificant amount of money and time and wear and tear etc on your vehicle driving back and forth to the airport, most likely, and many times you don’t go because it’s such a hassle and or takes most of the day with travel time both ways etc.

Assuming of course there is such a place near enough to your work for it to make sense, if not once retired, you can move to one.

This is soo true, they don't typically sell too easily so you have to plan properly. 

[A64Pilot]

24 minutes ago, cwaters said:

This is soo true, they don't typically sell too easily so you have to plan properly. 

I’m not sure what you mean, right now everything is selling and for prices higher than they should be.

However it’s my understanding that just a couple of years ago selling a hanger home was difficult, and will I’m sure be that way again, it’s a limited market, maybe what 1 in a 1,000 home buyers would want one?

I’m pretty sure to build here you have to be a licensed pilot and a hanger has to be built with plans approved, but I do not think they can keep an owner from selling to whomever they want to. Everything is sold though one Relator that lives here and so far she has kept out any non aviation people, one guy wanted to buy the biggest and best wood working shop of all his friends, I’m not sure how she kept from selling to him.

Edited June 9, 2021 by A64Pilot

[cwaters]

26 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

I’m not sure what you mean, right now everything is selling and for prices higher than they should be.

However it’s my understanding that just a couple of years ago selling a hanger home was difficult, and will I’m sure be that way again, it’s a limited market, maybe what 1 in a 1,000 home buyers would want one?

I’m pretty sure to build here you have to be a licensed pilot and a hanger has to be built with plans approved, but I do not think they can keep an owner from selling to whomever they want to. Everything is sold though one Relator that lives here and so far she has kept out any non aviation people, one guy wanted to buy the biggest and best wood working shop of all his friends, I’m not sure how she kept from selling to him.

This was the basis of my comment, they are normally not hot selling items. Barring the housing situation we are currently in where things are selling fast and for over asking, airparks (as you mention) have a limited market and can therefore be harder to sell if you decided to move. Some might prefer to be able to sell easily and then the extra hangar money you referenced is just spent on a nearby airport based hangar. Its all just a matter of preference and life situation. 

I'm still young in my career and will move every few years so while an air park home with attached hangar is my dream it will not be a reality for a decade or two for me strictly for resale prospects alone. 

[TTaylor]

On 6/9/2021 at 1:15 PM, cwaters said:

This was the basis of my comment, they are normally not hot selling items. Barring the housing situation we are currently in where things are selling fast and for over asking, airparks (as you mention) have a limited market and can therefore be harder to sell if you decided to move. Some might prefer to be able to sell easily and then the extra hangar money you referenced is just spent on a nearby airport based hangar. Its all just a matter of preference and life situation. 

I'm still young in my career and will move every few years so while an air park home with attached hangar is my dream it will not be a reality for a decade or two for me strictly for resale prospects alone. 

I get email and phone calls almost monthly asking if I want to sell my house on the airpark. Don't think I will have trouble selling if I ever wanted to.  It is the only airpark in Southern Utah, so I guess there is no competition or alternatives.  I like that the back door goes into my hangar and shop.