Modern Yoke

[Rusty Pilot]

I have a 1974 Mooney C with the old style vintage yoke and would like to upgrade.  The retrofit part number is 940021-505, but I would also consider purchasing a used set from a J or other modern Mooney that would fit.  Please let me know if you have anything available.  A C dimensioned replacement control wheel would have a good market.  I attached a picture of my current yoke.

[Vance Harral]

It looks like you understand that yokes and shafts must be matched together.  Not sure if you understand that the length and design of the forward end of the shaft where it attaches to the elevator and aileron linkages has also varied over the years.  If you purchase a set of yokes *and shafts* from a J or later model instead of the official Mooney retrofit kit, there is a good chance they will not properly connect to the elevator and aileron linkages in your C model.

More info here:

 

[gsxrpilot]

I once learned this the hard way. I bought a set of J style yokes here on MooneySpace. They came with the shafts. Several months later I was sitting in Don Maxwell's office and proudly showed him what I'd acquired and asked if his guys could install them. He went in his parts room and brought out a couple of C shafts and showed me how much they were different from the J shafts. There was no way the yokes would fit without the official Mooney retrofit kit to fit J yokes to my C.

It took another year to get Mooney to make them for me and I think they were about $600 each. I'm sure they're double that now. But in the end it was worth every bit of the trouble, time, and expense.

Here you go...

[Rusty Pilot]

8 hours ago, Vance Harral said:

It looks like you understand that yokes and shafts must be matched together.  Not sure if you understand that the length and design of the forward end of the shaft where it attaches to the elevator and aileron linkages has also varied over the years.  If you purchase a set of yokes *and shafts* from a J or later model instead of the official Mooney retrofit kit, there is a good chance they will not properly connect to the elevator and aileron linkages in your C model.

More info here:

 

Thanks, great information.  I knew I needed the shafts, but was not aware of the still needing the retrofit kit.  I was expecting I would need something else to drive the control linkages.  I requested a price for the retrofit kit from SWTA

[Rusty Pilot]

8 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I once learned this the hard way. I bought a set of J style yokes here on MooneySpace. They came with the shafts. Several months later I was sitting in Don Maxwell's office and proudly showed him what I'd acquired and asked if his guys could install them. He went in his parts room and brought out a couple of C shafts and showed me how much they were different from the J shafts. There was no way the yokes would fit without the official Mooney retrofit kit to fit J yokes to my C.

It took another year to get Mooney to make them for me and I think they were about $600 each. I'm sure they're double that now. But in the end it was worth every bit of the trouble, time, and expense.

Here you go...

Yours look great!  Nice panel

[47U]

3 hours ago, Rusty Pilot said:

Yours look great!  Nice panel

Fast, too.  All available for salvage, as of a few years ago... RIP N6XM.  

[gsxrpilot]

Yep, that was a sad day. Especially for the guy who owned her at the time. I've always wondered where the parts went. It had every speed mod ever produced for the C. It also had a really nice interior and of course the panel and yokes.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

Why wasn't N6XM repaired? Did the costs exceed the value of the plane?

[gsxrpilot]

49 minutes ago, Joe Zuffoletto said:

Why wasn't N6XM repaired? Did the costs exceed the value of the plane?

The plane was insured for $50K. It had about 1400 hours on the engine. The insurance company decided it was more cost effective to write the check for $50K and then part out the plane rather than pay to repair it. There is a percentage calculation the insurance company uses to decide to repair or total.

The owner thought about buying it back from the insurance company and getting it repaired, but estimated it would cost $7K to $10K out of pocket to do that... and then he'd still have an M20C, even a really nice one, but with a 1400 hour engine.

I'd had the plane insured with a $60K hull value to be sure that a simple gear-up wouldn't total the airplane. Then I sold it for $50K. And so the buyer insured it for $50K. I wish I'd thought to explain to him that $50K wasn't enough protection and how to calculate an appropriate level of insurance. The plane was worth $50K but it would take quite a bit more than that to recreate that airplane. Jason who bought it, took the $50K check and added the $10K he would have spent, and a bit more and bought an M20J. He's since sold the J and is on to something else now.

[wings_level]

On 3/16/2021 at 10:06 PM, gsxrpilot said:

I once learned this the hard way. I bought a set of J style yokes here on MooneySpace. They came with the shafts. Several months later I was sitting in Don Maxwell's office and proudly showed him what I'd acquired and asked if his guys could install them. He went in his parts room and brought out a couple of C shafts and showed me how much they were different from the J shafts. There was no way the yokes would fit without the official Mooney retrofit kit to fit J yokes to my C.

It took another year to get Mooney to make them for me and I think they were about $600 each. I'm sure they're double that now. But in the end it was worth every bit of the trouble, time, and expense.

Here you go...

I just finished upgrading my C to these yokes.  Picked the plane up yesterday.  Seems a lot stiffer on the controls than with the original yokes and shafts.  Wonder if there is an adjustment or greasing that maybe didn’t get done.  Use to I could fly with very little input, that is no longer the case. Also noticed the autopilot was chasing the heading bug, that never happened before.

Edited March 23, 2021 by wings_level

[Igor_U]

These look very nice.  Who did the leather on them, Hector?

I see you have autopilot disconnect on them. Is this for Brittain autopilot, by any chance? If so, I’d like to hear how is done.

 

I have a set of newer style yokes all with shafts that would fit to my F with no additional parts however I see no way to have disconnect to my Vacuum PC system.

I understand that last year of pre-J models have a el. solenoid that controls vacuum PC in system and is controlled by switch on a control wheel, but that solenoid is impossible to find. My IA wouldn’t be really signing is we use automotive parts for that…

 

 In a way I’m stuck with those, I have control wheels for a while now and I know, as soon as I give up and sell them, the solenoid will show up on Ebay…

[Hank]

@Igor_U, some people have a toggle switch on the panel that functions like the yoke push button, which they use for long periods of PC disconnect. Should be simple, just has to dump vacuum like the yoke button does.

I don't have that switch and don't need it. I enjoy having PC work all of the time, and the slight extra resistance reminds me to not overbank in the pattern. 

[Igor_U]

13 minutes ago, Hank said:

@Igor_U, some people have a toggle switch on the panel that functions like the yoke push button, which they use for long periods of PC disconnect. Should be simple, just has to dump vacuum like the yoke button does.

I don't have that switch and don't need it. I enjoy having PC work all of the time, and the slight extra resistance reminds me to not overbank in the pattern. 

Hank,

By toggle switch do you mean electric switch or some kind of vacuum valve our planes came originally? if electric, I'd still need Brittain solenoid which is made of unobtanium.

I don't think I'd like to have PC on all the time but it's certainly doable. Thank you.

[wings_level]

22 minutes ago, Igor_U said:

These look very nice.  Who did the leather on them, Hector?

I see you have autopilot disconnect on them. Is this for Brittain autopilot, by any chance? If so, I’d like to hear how is done.

 

I have a set of newer style yokes all with shafts that would fit to my F with no additional parts however I see no way to have disconnect to my Vacuum PC system.

I understand that last year of pre-J models have a el. solenoid that controls vacuum PC in system and is controlled by switch on a control wheel, but that solenoid is impossible to find. My IA wouldn’t be really signing is we use automotive parts for that…

 

 In a way I’m stuck with those, I have control wheels for a while now and I know, as soon as I give up and sell them, the solenoid will show up on Ebay…

Yea Hector did the leather.  The Autopilot is Stec.

[Hank]

52 minutes ago, Igor_U said:

Hank,

By toggle switch do you mean electric switch or some kind of vacuum valve our planes came originally? if electric, I'd still need Brittain solenoid which is made of unobtanium.

I don't think I'd like to have PC on all the time but it's certainly doable. Thank you.

They look like toggles--flip it one way, PC is on; flip it the other way, PC is off, like holding down the yoke button. Don't think a solenoid is required. @Marauder may know.

[47U]

8 hours ago, Hank said:

They look like toggles--flip it one way, PC is on; flip it the other way, PC is off, like holding down the yoke button. Don't think a solenoid is required.

Repurposing the alternate static source toggle switch that Spruce carries?

[carusoam]

Yoke stiffness should not exist...  with either of the yoke styles...

When swapping out shafts, there is a lot of hardware exchanged at the far end...

And a whole bunch of things that could interfere with yoke motion in the middle...

Give it a good look see behind the panel to see what may be really going on...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

19 hours ago, Hank said:

They look like toggles--flip it one way, PC is on; flip it the other way, PC is off, like holding down the yoke button. Don't think a solenoid is required. @Marauder may know.

My PC system had a switch on the panel to deactivate the PC. It was an electrical switch attached to a solenoid to do the vacuum dump.

[Bob R]

On 3/16/2021 at 6:27 PM, Vance Harral said:

It looks like you understand that yokes and shafts must be matched together.  Not sure if you understand that the length and design of the forward end of the shaft where it attaches to the elevator and aileron linkages has also varied over the years.  If you purchase a set of yokes *and shafts* from a J or later model instead of the official Mooney retrofit kit, there is a good chance they will not properly connect to the elevator and aileron linkages in your C model.

More info here:

 

Does anyone have a parts list for retrofit 940021-505? I have J model shafts and control wheels.

[Bob R]

On 3/23/2021 at 9:10 PM, 47U said:

Repurposing the alternate static source toggle switch that Spruce carries?

I like this idea if I can't find the original switch. May be able to even wire it for momentary cut-off using the PC cutoff button on the J yoke.