Crossing Mexican Airspace

[SkyPilot]

Hello Folks,

My wife and I are planning a trip to Belize from Canada.  I have never actually crossed any borders not even into the USA. My machine is a super nice 1967 M20F. I have a gps and vor but it is basically a VFR machine. So the question is: Can I flight plan from Texas to Belize VFR without landing in Mexico? Alternatively, despite all the head chopping off stories, anybody with Mexican landing and customs experience would be welcome to send me some tips. I just don't want to get shot down or tossed in jail.

Thanks,

Paul

[rbridges]

I'm not certain, but I thought you had to fly to the nearest customs airport when crossing mexican airspace.  Definitely check the rules b/c I think they're starting to crack down on people making mistakes with regulations.

[jax88]

I planned (never made it) a trip from San Antonio to Puerto Vallarta for Summer 2010.  It is my understanding that you are required to make your FIRST stop in Mexico at an airport with customs facilities/personel.  Your return trip will certainly require a stop in a designated facility.  I'm not sure about overflying Mexican airspace, but I would assume you will HAVE to land somewhere in Mexico for fuel.  Also, as I understood the law in Mexico, there is NO such thing as VFR at NIGHT, double check on that.  Also, you have to have a flight plan while flying in Mexico.  When crossing the U.S./Mexico border from the U.S. side, you MUST be on a flight plan (see ADIZ rules).  Also, as a U.S. citizen/aircraft owner I was required to purchase a customs stamp and a radio station license for my aircraft.  There are also some rules about making customs declarations online, or something to that effect, be sure and check and see if this is the case for your return trip if you intend to land in U.S. territory.

Be aware, there are large areas of remote desert with no aircraft facilities.  There are also some tall mountains, plan accordingly.  I think if you hug the Gulf of Mexico coastline you will have more choices for landings and fewer mountains.

Have a look at this page, it is where I got most of my information:

http://www.aopa.org/members/pic/intl/mexico/

Have fun, and plan thoroughly.

[Ned Gravel]

Paul:

I too have planned, but never made, the same sort of trip.  I think Randy is right.  In looking at the AOPA flight planner, my E model (150 kts IAS) would require 6:20 to go from McAllen Miller International (KMFE) near the US-Mexican boarder to MZBZ, Belize International Airport. 

I think you are going to end up landing somewhere in Mexico.

[gregwatts]

Quote: SkyPilot

Hello Folks,

My wife and I are

[gregwatts]

Quote: SkyPilot

Hello Folks,

My wife and I are planning a trip to Belize from Canada. I have never actually crossed any borders not even into the USA. My machine is a super nice 1967 M20F. I have a gps and vor but it is basically a VFR machine. So the question is: Can I flight plan from Texas to Belize VFR without landing in Mexico? Alternatively, despite all the head chopping off stories, anybody with Mexican landing and customs experience would be welcome to send me some tips. I just don't want to get shot down or tossed in jail.

Thanks,

Paul

[Becca]

Quote: gregwatts

In Pt 135 operations, we always used a handler. Helps navigate the corruption. When landing in Mexico, take cash, small bills because they never have change, and any Spanish is helpful.

[FBCK]

Skypilot, there is a group from the Calgary Flying Club that fly to Mexico every spring, I just got the email, they are looking at March again for the same trip. They usually go down to the Baja area, VFR, nobody is in rush, 5-10 planes usually, Andrew Sclutz is the guy that usually puts it together (Andy is part of the club but doesn't work there), I'm sure they would mide if you tagged along, I may do the trip myself this year if the stars aline.

[AlexR]

Logistically, that will be a tough trip.  All above applies plus on you way back from Central America, Mexico will only allow you to land at two airports to clear...cozumel and one other I cant remember.   You should join CaribbeanSkyTours.com.   They have the latest info.

My I suggest you consider flying to Key West, Fl and launching from there?  The flight to MZBZ hugging the Cuban coast to the VINKA intersection and then on to  CZM should be just about 4 hours in your plane.  I have done it many times and would rather deal with ditching in the gulf with a raft and a plb than the mexican desert and narcobandits.  Just my 2cents.

[Vref]

All details should be in the Mexican AIP (Aeronautical Information Publication)

[Becca]

Quote: AlexR

Mexico will only allow you to land at two airports to clear...cozumel and one other I cant remember.

[Becca]

Quote: Becca

Where did you get that information?  Looks like there are quite a number of airports of entry in Mexico: http://www.acukwik.com/airportsOfEntry/MEXICO.  Though if you did have to clear, the Cozumel/Cancun area is probably the right thing to do, its only a couple hundred miles up the coast from Belize and because of the nature of the "protected" tourist status on the Yucatan its probably among the safer places to put down.

[FoxMike]

SkyPilot,

I have flown a lot in Mexico and Latin America.  Off hand I do not the mileage from Brownville to Belize but that route takes you over the gulf.  Stopping in Mexico can be expensive but runnung out of gas is even more so.  Several years ago myself (flying a T210) and a friend in a 231 flew Mc Allen, Tex. to Guatamula City over land, none stop.  It was about 6 hrs.  The return trip was from Tikal to Brownsville (most of trip over water).  You can overfly Mexico without difficulty but fuel reserves need to be considered.  If you want to stay over land for the most part head for Vera Cruz, if you are comfortable over water head for Ciudad del Carmen.  The cost and hassle of stopping in Mexico is significant but you need a lot of gas to avoid it.  Using your GPS at home for some flight planning would be a good idea.

Walt

[kortopates]

I've flown all over Mexico and some Cenam. I could not imagine planning a trip down that required a non-stop overflight of Mexico; especially in a VFR bird. if you have concerns about landing in Mexico or just the fees for Mexico you should reconsider the trip. Belize has very high fees compared to most countries. If fees are your concern, simply do your homework before venturing down so that you don't need the services of a handler as that is the source of most high fees that folks complain about. But if for no other reason, I suggest giving up the notion of flying non-stop for weather reasons, especially in a VFR only bird, and plan to give yourself landing options all along the way down should you need one. If this isn't making any sense, consider for a moment, where do you think you'll get a weather briefing for Mexico? 

But your very first step should be to check if your insurance policy covers you into Belize. Unless you were specifically asking for coverage that include CenAM, most/many policies will only cover as far south as Mexico. However, getting a mexican liability policy its just an added expense and easy to get but south of Mexico could be an issue depending on your underwriter.

If you want to research the facts about flying in Mexico and CenAM I'd suggest joining the Baha Bush Pilots https://www.bushpilotsinternational.com . Flying south of the border can be a great adventure unlike anywhere in the US. Take your time, do lots and lots of planning so you know your options all along your route and you are sure to have a most memorable trip using your Mooney for what it does best - flying x-country.

[SkyPilot]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm planning to put the Monroy long range tanks in before the trip. Should make fuel a non-issue despite routing or power settings. Bladder control will be the deciding factor there.

Keep the info coming in. I'll check out the suggested links in the meanwhile.

Paul

[FoxMike]

Paul,

I would second all the points made by Paul Kortopates.  Weather information is sketchy in Mexico.  You could easily find it necessary to land at an airport in Mexico.  If you do not have a flight plan the tower may call out the military.  A friend of mine was returning from Roatan and decided he needed fuel and stopped in VillaHersoma.  The military surrounded his plane when he taxied to the ramp.  He had about 10 soldiers aiming M-16s at him.  His girlfriend about went nuts.  ICAO requests participating countries to allow unplanned stops for fuel, weather deviations and other problems that can be encountered during flight.  In many years of flying in Mexico I have never seen them follow those requests.  On long legs I file IFR.  If I need to stop somewhere short of the destination at least center will let the airport know I am coming.  I am trying not to paint too bleak a picture of GA travel in Mexico but it works out best if you stick with a conservative game plan.

 

[jetdriven]

Oveflight permits are avaliable.   http://portal.sre.gob.mx/was_eng/index.php?option=displaypage&Itemid=66&op=page&SubMenu=

Another thing, its 650 NM from Galveston to Cancun, and XM weather does not work once about 50 miles offshore.  Stormscopes are your friend here. However, Monroy tanks in a C model you have enough gas to make that leg plus the additional 150 miles down to Belize.  Florida, over Cuba, and then to Cozumel, etc may be less water to cross.

Unplanned diversions can be a PITA but its better to land than the alternative. My experience in larger planes is be open, smile a lot, be polite, speak some spanish, and pay them their fees if they ask. The nicer you are the less they cost.

[SkyPilot]

Thanks again for all the help.

I'm not too worried about excessive handling fees etc. So far I figure my bird has cost me just short of $1100 per hour insurance, maintenance, hanger, payments and fuel etc. I just prefer to avoid unnecessary paperwork. If I can overfly without landing, awesome. If not, well that's life.

I work in a nearly 3rd world country now and sometimes you just get tired of large amounts of people looking for a hand-out.

Right now I have standard 64 gallon tanks and easily do 5 hours plus reserve. That's at about 10 or 12,000 feet leaned 50 to 75 degrees rich of peak. Including climb, I am averaging 10.4 US gph. Once I put in my new EGT gauge, I'll have a better idea what is going on. Also I only burn 1 litre per 10 hours which is good enough for most lengthy trips. With the addition of Monroy long range tanks, I should be able to do 1100 nm legs max, no wind, plus reserve.

The Florida option is looking good, no mexicans, no need for permits. It's about the same milage from my place and like the fella said, might be better ditching in the ocean than forcing down in mexico. The raft and survival gear will make for a heavier bird though. Florida to Belize is about 200 miles less than Brownsville to Belize.

Sounds like my life will be easier with an IFR. I've passed the written so I may as well carry on.  28 years of flying VFR and Bush IFR is enough. The cost of radio upgrades for IFR will never come back to me, but I can always remove a good radio for the next bird. I guess it is time to bite the bullet.

Keep the helpful stuff coming. Happy Landings!

 

[jetdriven]

LOP averages 8.5 to 9 GPH, that extends range too.   I wouldnt worry too much about being forced down in Mexico, its probably safer there than in Gary, IN.  Its not a big deal.

[RobertoTohme]

Not wanting to type a lenghty post, I'll tell all of you that the horror stories about flying to Mexico are way overrated...  No doubt somebody here in the forum has had a bad experience sometime, but I assure you that the experience sprung from not having the correct docs needed.  Informing yourself about requirements beforehand removes surprises, and yes, it's still a bureocratic process and it'll cost some money, but it by no means undoable without a handler.

Take this bit of information from someone who flies back and forth to Mexico every single week of the year, and being doing it for years on end.  Anyone interested in specifics, send me a PM and I'll gladly address your individual case promptly.

Safe flying.

[kortopates]

Quote: SkyPilot

...

Sounds like my life will be easier with an IFR. I've passed the written so I may as well carry on.  28 years of flying VFR and Bush IFR is enough.  ...

[SkyPilot]

Quote: kortopates

Paul, curious, never heard of Bush IFR. Can you explain?

Also sounds like this trip is something pretty far off in the future if it involves upgrades for long range tanks and radios . But is there a particular time of year you're planning to do it?

[jetdriven]

Seriously the biggest thing to worry about in Mexico is sunburn, hangover, and getting sick from poorly prepared food.

[SkyPilot]

Quote: jetdriven

Seriously the biggest thing to worry about in Mexico is sunburn, hangover, and getting sick from poorly prepared food.

[jetmech1972]

Check out this link from a RV flyer for trips to the Bahamas and Baja Mexico http://myrv10.com/N104CD/index.html. Also this guy also has a very good write up flying into Mexico, scroll down to under trips http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=14032.