Garmin says the GFC600 is possible down the road for Mooney Long Bodies

[LANCECASPER]

In 2108 I considered having my M20M used by Garmin to certify the GFC500. I ended up declining but let them know I may be willing to do the same if they decided to certify the GFC600 for long body Mooneys.

This morning I received an e-mail out of the blue from Garmin and they mentioned that if there is enough interest (30-40 aircraft) they would consider certifying the GFC600 in the next few years for long body Mooneys. They asked a few questions back and forth in e-mails.

I think this would be a great solution for a lot of us that don't have Garmin panels but down the road would like a new autopilot. (I have 3 Aspens and an Avidyne IFD50 and my King KFC150 is flying very well for now). The GFC 600 doesn't need a G5 or G3X. Garmin says, "Drawing on our top-end Garmin GFC 700 flight control technology, GFC 600 provides crisp, precise response and optimum performance over the entire airspeed envelope of your aircraft. Rather than depending on failure-prone mechanical gyros, the GFC 600 system is digitally controlled, using solid-state attitude and air data sensor reference — giving you ultra-smooth roundouts, intercepts and more while also enhancing system reliability. Offering a flexible upgrade solution, GFC 600 can be interfaced with a variety of Garmin and third-party instrumentation and navigation sources. The design of the GFC 600  includes environmentally hardened servos, allowing for installation in a wide range of airframes, including harsh operating conditions. The robust hardware used in the GFC 600 autopilot’s scalable architecture lets you tailor your system’s configuration to support the level of capability you want. Every component has been engineered to work seamlessly together to ensure optimum smoothness and comfort in flight — while helping to reduce pilot workload in the cockpit."

If you're interested in the GFC600 for your airplane (M20L, pre-G1000 M20M, pre-G1000 M20R and M20S) in the next few years, let Garmin know: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/forms/autopilotinterest/. 

[kortopates]

I always thought it was just a matter of time. If I am not mistaken, they already have both AP options available for the A36.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[StevenL757]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

In 2108 I considered having my M20M used by Garmin to certify the GFC500. I ended up declining but let them know I may be willing to do the same if they decided to certify the GFC600 for long body Mooneys.

This morning I received an e-mail out of the blue from Garmin and they mentioned that if there is enough interest (30-40 aircraft) they would consider certifying the GFC600 in the next few years for long body Mooneys. They asked a few questions back and forth in e-mails.

I think this would be a great solution for a lot of us that don't have Garmin panels but down the road would like a new autopilot. (I have 3 Aspens and an Avidyne IFD50 and my King KFC150 is flying very well for now). The GFC 600 doesn't need a G5 or G3X. Garmin says, "Drawing on our top-end Garmin GFC 700 flight control technology, GFC 600 provides crisp, precise response and optimum performance over the entire airspeed envelope of your aircraft. Rather than depending on failure-prone mechanical gyros, the GFC 600 system is digitally controlled, using solid-state attitude and air data sensor reference — giving you ultra-smooth roundouts, intercepts and more while also enhancing system reliability. Offering a flexible upgrade solution, GFC 600 can be interfaced with a variety of Garmin and third-party instrumentation and navigation sources. The design of the GFC 600  includes environmentally hardened servos, allowing for installation in a wide range of airframes, including harsh operating conditions. The robust hardware used in the GFC 600 autopilot’s scalable architecture lets you tailor your system’s configuration to support the level of capability you want. Every component has been engineered to work seamlessly together to ensure optimum smoothness and comfort in flight — while helping to reduce pilot workload in the cockpit."

If you're interested in the GFC600 for your airplane (M20L, pre-G1000 M20M, pre-G1000 M20R and M20S) in the next few years, let Garmin know: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/forms/autopilotinterest/. 

So...as I read this, I felt like it was an April Fool's joke in December, given I'm a week into my 4-servo GFC500 + GI275 install.  Actually, the above summary is somewhat close to what I got from my reliable Garmin source a couple of weeks ago.  I'll get his permission tomorrow to use his name - knowing this group appreciates a citation from a reliable source who is close to the topic.  Paraphrasing very closely from that phone conversation...

"if there was a sudden interest in, say, 50 or more long-body Mooney aircraft, we MIGHT put this on the drawing board for approval behind several other aircraft, including some King Air models, and a few others.  In other words, about 5th or 6th in line; but again, we would need at least 50 interested owners/stewards that are willing to write the check right now".

If this turns out to be true, and Garmin is serious about wanting a deposit or commitment toward the total target number aircraft they're looking for to get this STC done for our long-body airplanes, I'll be first in line for the upgrade.  Will be interesting to see what upgrade path they'll offer for folks like us who have committed to the 500 tho.

Edited December 31, 2020 by StevenL757
Clarity

[StevenL757]

34 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I always thought it was just a matter of time. If I am not mistaken, they already have both AP options available for the A36.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

True.  I've also flown a 1998 Baron-58 with the 600 installed.  A thing of beauty.  I didn't want to land.

[LANCECASPER]

Here's a quote from this morning's e-mail from the Garmin rep: "I would likely have to have a minimum of 30-40 aircraft that have similar preference of GFC 600 over the 500 in order to pull the trigger on a program like this."

[aviatoreb]

Just long body?

What is the price difference (installed) and what is the quality/options difference?  Other than "hardened servos" which is nice.

[StevenL757]

15 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Here's a quote from this morning's e-mail from the Garmin rep: "I would likely have to have a minimum of 30-40 aircraft that have similar preference of GFC 600 over the 500 in order to pull the trigger on a program like this."

Dang.  :-)

I filled out the form for the 43rd time.  I do hope they're serious.

[kortopates]

58 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Just long body?

What is the price difference (installed) and what is the quality/options difference?  Other than "hardened servos" which is nice.

No dependence on GPS aiding for starters and heavier duty servo's. Loose GPS and need to fly an ILS to minimums - no problem for the AP.

[aviatoreb]

20 minutes ago, kortopates said:

No dependence on GPS aiding for starters and heavier duty servo's. Loose GPS and need to fly an ILS to minimums - no problem for the AP.

Oh right - I forgot the GFC500 depends on combining ILS radio signal plus gps signal to fly an ILS - so if the GFC600 can do a true ILS signal only ILS approach that is worth something!

I can see where with a king air I would definitely want the heavier duty servos.  But on a little ol' Mooney it seems like King air quality servos might be over kill?

[ArtVandelay]

Oh right - I forgot the GFC500 depends on combining ILS radio signal plus gps signal to fly an ILS - so if the GFC600 can do a true ILS signal only ILS approach that is worth something!
I can see where with a king air I would definitely want the heavier duty servos.  But on a little ol' Mooney it seems like King air quality servos might be over kill?

We had 1 MS member have pitch control issues as a result of the elevator springs and some resistance. I’m guessing the 600 would not be so sensitive.
I wonder if the servos are interchangeable, subject to approval of course.

[aviatoreb]

4 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

We had 1 MS member have pitch control issues as a result of the elevator springs and some resistance. I’m guessing the 600 would not be so sensitive.
I wonder if the servos are interchangeable, subject to approval of course.

Well that makes a case for the 600.

If there is resistance that is not there other planes, maybe its not just a servo issue, but an airframe maintenance issue?

E

[aviatoreb]

4 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

We had 1 MS member have pitch control issues as a result of the elevator springs and some resistance. I’m guessing the 600 would not be so sensitive.
I wonder if the servos are interchangeable, subject to approval of course.

Well that makes a case for the 600.

If there is resistance that is not there other planes, maybe its not just a servo issue, but an airframe maintenance issue?

If the 600 is able to fly an ILS without gps (as it should!!!) then it seems the 500 could also, as a software update.

E

[donkaye]

I'd normally be at the front of the line for the latest new upgrade to my airplane.  In this case no way.  From what I've heard the installation cost differential would be $10,000 in parts alone plus greater installation costs.  I've had the GFC 500 for over a 1½ year now and it works perfectly.  To date it has never failed due to GPS aiding necessity.  Even if it did, an ILS could be hand flown.  The GFC 600 has no mode controller that I can tell, so heading and altitude need to be controlled from some display somewhere.

Given an already total Garmin Cockpit, the need for the GFC 600 is 0%.  For those who don't have all Garmin the extra cost could possibly be justified, since there would be no need to buy other additional hardware.  I think that Garmin will be hard pressed to find 40 or 50 airplanes whose owners would be willing to go that route--but I could be wrong.  If someone asked me, I'd certainly say it wasn't necessary with the availability of the GFC 500.

[StevenL757]

So...if I could issue a retraction of my earlier posts, I’ll take a mulligan there.  Wasn’t aware the install costs were that high, and the work to get there is that extensive over the 500.  I hadn’t thought about the mode controller (or lack of) either.  Sounds like an affordable upgrade path doesn’t really exist from the 500 to the 600.

I should shut up, be thankful that I’m saving a ton of money, be grateful that my 500 install will be complete soon, enjoy the heck out of it, and rest easier knowing I have one of the best autopilots available out there at a fair price.

[Mooney in Oz]

On 1/1/2021 at 1:32 AM, donkaye said:

The GFC 600 has no mode controller that I can tell, so heading and altitude need to be controlled from some display somewhere.

Hello Don. From the GFC600 PG: GFC600 Mode Controller.pdf

 

[donkaye]

6 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said:

Hello Don. From the GFC600 PG: GFC600 Mode Controller.pdf

 

Hi Victor.  Happy New Year!   While the 605 has the wheel to modify pitch, V/S and IAS, there seems to be no control for Heading and Altitude Preselect.  The  507  Mode Controller on the GFC 500 has all the functions in one place.  To me that makes the GFC 600 very inconvenient to use.   Since I haven't flown the GFC 600 maybe there's a better explanation.

[Mooney in Oz]

7 hours ago, donkaye said:

Hi Victor.  Happy New Year!   While the 605 has the wheel to modify pitch, V/S and IAS, there seems to be no control for Heading and Altitude Preselect.  The  507  Mode Controller on the GFC 500 has all the functions in one place.  To me that makes the GFC 600 very inconvenient to use.   Since I haven't flown the GFC 600 maybe there's a better explanation.

Thanks Don. I see what you mean.

Happy New Year to you and Shirley!!