I stared down Lycoming and they blinked first.

[Nokomis449]

5 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Not to be a paid factory shill here, but if you go to the factory engine, all those A.D. mandatory replacement crankshaft, and all of the cylinders everything else get tossed out, they don’t charge extra for that. 

That's exactly what came off the plane that I had rebuilt- it was a Lycoming factory reman 0-time engine. They may have thrown everything out, but they installed a brand new crankshaft that was subject to the AD a few short years later.  So even fresh factory/remans can have recalls.  Since I plan to keep this plane forever, the extra cost of the factory reman vs having Penn Yan rebuild what I'd known for almost 20 years to be a dependable engine was not worth the perceived added value to me.  Penn Yan replaces just about everything but the case and crankshaft, but whatever they put inside is either new or meets new standards.  New starter, new alternator, new pistons/cylinders, etc.  So I'd put my fresh Penn Yan rebuilt engine up against a new/reman from from Lycoming for dependability, and in my opinion I won hands down on value.

I think you're comparing it to a field overhaul, where an A&P can put the same hardware back into an engine as long as it's not worn beyond factory spec for service.

[Nokomis449]

2 hours ago, 47U said:

2 hours ago, 47U said:

I think the mistake Lycoming made was putting the wrong serial number on the non counterweight crankshaft in the first place.  My -A1D crankshaft serial number starts with an ‘S’.  All the target serial numbers in MSB 569A appear to start with an ‘I’ or ‘V’ (but for a handful without a letter prefix).

My crankshaft serial number is was V537923412.  I haven't seen the ser# of the new one.

 

2 hours ago, 47U said:

Admittedly, I don’t know the serial number assignment process Lycoming uses, but I think Penn Yan should petition Lycoming to issue a new serial number to the crankshaft.  This option doesn’t require changing any MSB or AD verbiage and the OP can keep his original crankshaft, of which he is most familiar with its history.  

If your hypothesis is correct, then there's also a good chance that someone is out there flying behind a bad crankshaft that also has an incorrect serial number (that's not on the list!).  

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, vorlon1 said:

So how are you--as a pilot owner--to do that without first opening it up; and once you've done that you've shifted the burden of proof.

Seems to me that once you send it out, you are at their mercy...

Like they say, "just asking." Someone help clarify this one for me?

From SB 569A, part and serial number are marked on the circumference of the prop flange.  Removing the propeller and starter gear support will reveal the data.

Clarence

 

[47U]

1 hour ago, Nokomis449 said:

If your hypothesis is correct, then there's also a good chance that someone is out there flying behind a bad crankshaft that also has an incorrect serial number (that's not on the list!).  

Certainly there’s a chance, hopefully your experience is an isolated incident.  If widespread, perhaps some of the larger engine overhaulers would have come across your scenario before and we would have heard about it.  

If crankshafts that are targeted by the service bulletin have the wrong serial number on them so it appears that the AD doesn’t apply,  now more than 10 years after the 2009 retirement date, a failure could create some level of liability exposure for Lycoming. 

I wonder what type of crankshaft defect/failure Lycoming was concerned about?  The service bulletin is not specific as to what the actual problem is.   

 

[Tim Jodice]

2 hours ago, Nokomis449 said:

I'd put my fresh Penn Yan rebuilt engine up against a new/reman from from Lycoming for dependability, and in my opinion I won hands down on value.

+2 for Penn Yan. My friends F model and my J both have Penn Yan engines. His was overhauled on 2004 and has about 1400 hours on it. Mine was done in 2017 and has about 550 on it.

Given the age I wouldn't be surprised if my friends was leaking oil but it doesn't. It has had nothing but regular maintenance.

[jetdriven]

4 hours ago, vorlon1 said:

So how are you--as a pilot owner--to do that without first opening it up; and once you've done that you've shifted the burden of proof.

Seems to me that once you send it out, you are at their mercy...

Like they say, "just asking." Someone help clarify this one for me?

Check the crank serial number.  See how many hours are on the case and the crank.  Look for the machine shop papers that show what the crank was turned to last. In our situation, the crank was turned to -.006 and the case had been machined twice and welded on once.  At some point that stuff is at high risk for getting red tagged at an overhaul shop.