Ovation owners. Smallest runway you will land on?

[MooneyMitch]

24 minutes ago, Hank said:

Like my C, Ovations all have cowl flaps. They are in a single, fixed position and cannot be moved except on the ground, cowl off, with a wrench or two.

Hank.  Are you possibly referring to the Ovation exhaust pipe fairings attached to the bottom of cowl?

 

[FlyingScot]

1 hour ago, MooneyMitch said:

Hank.  Are you possibly referring to the Ovation exhaust pipe fairings attached to the bottom of cowl?

 

I repeat! O’s don’t have no stinking cowl flaps!

[Seriously, a flap is movable by definition, so a stationary flap is an oxymoron ;-) A stationary cowl flap is a cowl(ing)]

[Little Dipper]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

Like my C, Ovations all have cowl flaps. They are in a single, fixed position and cannot be moved except on the ground, cowl off, with a wrench or two.

 

[Little Dipper]

We can land using a shorter distance than it takes to take off.   The answer to this question depends on temperature density altitude, winds and weight.    

[exM20K]

56 minutes ago, Little Dipper said:

We can land using a shorter distance than it takes to take off.   The answer to this question depends on temperature density altitude, winds and weight.    

great point, Norm.  I think I forgot to mention this.  Landings are at lighter weight than takeoffs most of the time (duh - we burn fuel in flight!).  

however, book distances for t/o are much easier to achieve than book or less for landing - pilot skill and technique is much more influential in landing distances.

For my situation, if the book says the plane will do it, I'm confident it will since the book is written for 280 HP, and not the 310 I have.

cheers,

-dan

[G-SLOT]

My previous base was 2,135' though the prevailing wind meant most landings were slightly uphill. Landing downhill in the other direction was always a bit tight, especially as one had to carry a bit of extra speed on final to accommodate wind sheer typically experienced descending below tree height.

My current base has a runway length of 2,543' (flat).

As others have said, speed control is key and just be ready to throw it away and try again if a little fast.

Short runways are fine, as are gusty crosswinds, but the two together can keep you on your toes and may necessitate a diversion.

[Jeff_S]

As mentioned in at least one other post, your best approach is to subscribe to CloudAhoy and religiously log every flight.  If you can't get flight log data (e.g. from a G1000) into it, even the self-created GPS data will help.  This will let you track your tendencies and build your comfort zone.  I just analyzed my last 10 flights, and the stopping distance ranged from 850' to over 1800'...obviously it can differ based on winds, how much runway you have left, landing long to get to a far taxiway for egress, etc.  But what I noticed is that invariably I am touching down about 1000' past the numbers, which is a normal thing on a 3-degree glide path and given the O's tendency to want to keep flying.  So when you are trying to get into a tight field, practice even better speed control, and change your aim point to try to touch down earlier (taking into account all other safety requirements of the environment of course).  I'd say given my current proficiency, I wouldn't try to land at anything less than 2,500', but the Ovation will do shorter with practice.

[Danb]

On 9/30/2020 at 8:14 AM, alexz said:

Still really good clear path in front to allow for shallow approach

 

 

Not my idea of enjoyment, you young bucks love it though 

[Jerry 5TJ]

In 6’ tall corn, 50’ will do.  

[carusoam]

7 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

In 6’ tall corn, 50’ will do.  

When really short stopping distances are a requirement... GU on a paved surface can be about 200’... 

Performing short field landings was always a blast...

I think Dan explained  my challenge... I graduated out of being a young buck...  

Best regards,

-a-

[Danb]

Yep Anthony my fearless youth doing most anything daring is a distant memory 

[LANCECASPER]

Here's a thread worth reading to answer the question "Ovation owners. Smallest runway you will land on?":

 

 

[Mufflerbearing]

Flew into Shelton Wa recently while the runway was being repaved.  The taxiway was being used as the runway while the work was being done.  I think the length was 2100' and 50' wide.  Checked my POH and decided I could do this.  Nailed the numbers and landed in about 1000'.  There are a lot of factors to take into consideration as mentioned. 

[MatthiasArnold]

My home base EDKA used to have less than 1740ft until a couple of weeks ago, elevation 620ft.
Started my flight training there 5years ago (DA20, PA28, C172R, DA40, M20J -> M20R).
1740ft are easily manageable with M20J but can be sometimes challenging with M20R O2 (since some weeks we have a new/longer runway with asphalt overrun at both ends, the situation is much more relaxed now).
As mentioned by the other Mooniacs above, energy/speed management plus choosing the right aiming point are key. 
- My approach speeds are 73kts at max mass down to 69kts at low mass (e.g. 20gal fuel, one person)
- In order to have energy available I choose to approach at relative steep angles >4°; being on the back side of the power curve, shallow approaches are no good idea (per my FI)
- Aiming point is derived from POH by calculating landing distance over 50ft obstacle minus loading roll -> several hundred feet in front of threshold.
- Power off point is chosen in relation to wind conditions (less wind earlier).
- After power off I prefer to grab the control yoke with both hands. At least for me this results in better/more sensitive control during landing = better landings.
As mentioned before: you need more TORA than LDA, especially at higher take off mass.
PPL thoughts only, no FI..

Best regards,
Matthias
 

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, MatthiasArnold said:

My home base EDKA used to have less than 1740ft until a couple of weeks ago, elevation 620ft.
Started my flight training there 5years ago (DA20, PA28, C172R, DA40, M20J -> M20R).
1740ft are easily manageable with M20J but can be sometimes challenging with M20R O2 (since some weeks we have a new/longer runway with asphalt overrun at both ends, the situation is much more relaxed now).
As mentioned by the other Mooniacs above, energy/speed management plus choosing the right aiming point are key. 
- My approach speeds are 73kts at max mass down to 69kts at low mass (e.g. 20gal fuel, one person)
- In order to have energy available I choose to approach at relative steep angles >4°; being on the back side of the power curve, shallow approaches are no good idea (per my FI)
- Aiming point is derived from POH by calculating landing distance over 50ft obstacle minus loading roll -> several hundred feet in front of threshold.
- Power off point is chosen in relation to wind conditions (less wind earlier).
- After power off I prefer to grab the control yoke with both hands. At least for me this results in better/more sensitive control during landing = better landings.
As mentioned before: you need more TORA than LDA, especially at higher take off mass.
PPL thoughts only, no FI..

Best regards,
Matthias
 

The two blade prop that came standard on the Ovation 2 is great for cruise but takes forever to get off the ground. Many O2 owners have changed them out for the Hartzell scimitar 3 blade.

[FlyingScot]

5 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

The two blade prop that came standard on the Ovation 2 is great for cruise but takes forever to get off the ground. Many O2 owners have changed them out for the Hartzell scimitar 3 blade.

3-blade + 310 HP STC = New airplane on takeoff.

[MooneyMitch]

1 hour ago, FlyingScot said:

3-blade + 310 HP STC = New airplane on takeoff.

Zowie!!!!!!! 

[carusoam]

The 310 hp + TopProp = 33% shorter T/O run....

O1 = 1,200’ T/O run... Climb rate is good...

O3 = 800’ T/O run... Climb rate 2X good...

Based on similar profiles... I measured my O1 vs. @Cris’s Screamin’ Eagle...

You never saw somebody so happy to need an engine OH... 

So... if you live on a 2k’ runway... and like to be off the ground at the halfway mark... put the 310hp on your check list...   
 

Best regards,

-a-
 

 

[Niko182]

The smallest i'd probably take it to would be a 1400ft strip. I did 1800 a couple weeks back and wasn't even close to using all of it.  

That would however be sea level, 30 gallons and just me. If i'm light short final approach speed is about 61 to 62 knots. That gets me stopped in give or take 700 to 800ft ground roll.

[carusoam]

Adhering to DA limitations would be key... knowledge is power!

Everything was good all winter, then...   
 

We unfortunately got a lesson in DA calculations and the use of all the available runway... from Patrick.
 

There are quite a few apps for helping run through the real numbers being used on MS lately...

Collecting your own performance data has never been easier...
 

PP thoughts only, Not a CFI...
 

Best regards,

-a-

[Jerry 5TJ]

9 hours ago, Niko182 said:

If i'm light short final approach speed is about 61 to 62 knots.

Not many Ovation pilots are willing to fly the approach at that slow speed.  That’s about 1.1 x Vs in a lightly loaded Ovation 1.   
 

[Hank]

17 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Not many Ovation pilots are willing to fly the approach at that slow speed.  That’s about 1.1 x Vs in a lightly loaded Ovation 1.   
 

Lightweight O1 withnfull flaps stalls at 53 knots; 1.2 Vs = 63.6; 61 knots is 1.15 Vs. Just be careful . . . . 

[MooneyMitch]

12 hours ago, carusoam said:

The 310 hp + TopProp = 33% shorter T/O run....

O1 = 1,200’ T/O run... Climb rate is good...

O3 = 800’ T/O run... Climb rate 2X good...

Based on similar profiles... I measured my O1 vs. @Cris’s Screamin’ Eagle...

You never saw somebody so happy to need an engine OH... 

So... if you live on a 2k’ runway... and like to be off the ground at the halfway mark... put the 310hp on your check list...   
 

Best regards,

-a-
 

 

And make sure your tire pressures are correct!! 

[carusoam]

Nothing draggier than soft tires...

It uses a lot of extra energy flexing the rubber...

(I saw a GoPro mounted inside a tire, one day... go YouTube!)

Pushing the plane around... the difference seems pretty noticeable...

Best regards,

-a-

[Niko182]

6 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Not many Ovation pilots are willing to fly the approach at that slow speed.  That’s about 1.1 x Vs in a lightly loaded Ovation 1.   
 

30 gallons and just me puts me at right under 2500 pounds. Its not something I do often, but the ovations lightly loaded can land very short distances in my opinion. If you look at the chart, you can knock off another 2 knots off stall speed at 2500lbs which puts stall speed at around 51. That puts you at 1.195 to 1.216 VSO, which leaves a good amount of margin in my opinion. As Hank said, you have to be cautious and ready to go around, but I wouldn't think 1.2 VSO is unsafe. 61-62 knots is only when the aircraft is very light. Once there's other people or things in the plane, that approach speed becomes unsafe.