Retractable Gear Insurance and Safety

[kpaul]

@EchoMax the E you just purchased has a big safety feature built in...the Johnson Bar!  But, since that is not completely pilot proof, I believe that particular aircraft also has a "bitching Betty" that says "gear" vs, just a horn.

[mike_elliott]

Just now, kpaul said:

@EchoMax the E you just purchased has a big safety feature built in...the Johnson Bar!  But, since that is not completely pilot proof, I believe that particular aircraft also has a "bitching Betty" that says "gear" vs, just a horn.

One has to get used to when the bar is up the wheels are down and when the bar is down the wheels are up, but otherwise it is a visual indicator. Kind of like a gear switch, only reversed  I cannot remember if Bob's E had the bitchin betty when I flew it, but they definitely help our fallible checks we so religiously adhere to and mess up with as soon as a distraction enters. The key with a bitchin betty is to placate her immediately, just like you do your wife, or get ready to pay the price.

[MooneyMitch]

“Check your gear, check your gear” she says......... yes dear! 

[201er]

3 hours ago, kpaul said:

@EchoMax the E you just purchased has a big safety feature built in...the Johnson Bar!  But, since that is not completely pilot proof, I believe that particular aircraft also has a "bitching Betty" that says "gear" vs, just a horn.

1 hour ago, MooneyMitch said:

“Check your gear, check your gear” she says......... yes dear! 

I didn’t know Nancy was part of the arrangement!? 

[steingar]

First, there is no such thing as a foolproof technological solution that will prevent you from landing your Mooney gear up.  Fools always find a way around those things.  There's Youtube video of a couple guys landing gear up with the gear horn audibly blazing away for all to hear.  Another poster said it.  Gear down 4 or 6 miles out.  Do it always.  Don't wait to drop it on downwind, you could get distracted by another airplane.  6 miles out.  CFI says don't, fire him and get someone else.  Get the gear down well before you hit the pattern or do anything else.  I usually have gear and flaps down before I hit the downwind.  Also, remember that your GUMPS is now more complicated.  You've got to open the cowl flaps for the go around, right? You've got to put on the boost pump, right?  And you want to get that landing light on too, right?  That's the stuff you can do on downwind.

I recommend switching tanks on the top of the descent, but that might be just me (I"m really short and sit all the way forward).  To reach the fuel selector I have to unlatch my seat belt, bend over to point where I'm giving myself a blow job, and reach down to move the selector.  I really don't want to do that at low altitude and energy.

Lastly, don't freak out about it.  The old saying may be apocryphal, but there are plenty of Mooney pilots who haven't landed gear up yet.

[Mooneymite]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

First, there is no such thing as a foolproof technological solution that will prevent you from landing your Mooney gear up.

 

While that may be true, it is also true that the airlines' incidence of gear-up landings is approaching zero.  Crew discipline, training, checking and thousands of hours all count toward the goal, but the EGPWS technology has saved countless "proficient" crews.

We may never reach zero gear ups, but a technology back-up will trump habit pattern every time.

 

[RobertGary1]

On 7/14/2020 at 12:21 PM, Mooneymite said:

 

While that may be true, it is also true that the airlines' incidence of gear-up landings is approaching zero.  Crew discipline, training, checking and thousands of hours all count toward the goal, but the EGPWS technology has saved countless "proficient" crews.

We may never reach zero gear ups, but a technology back-up will trump habit pattern every time.

 

Bitchin Betty has no doubt saved untold numbers of gear up incidence with the airlines. I have the voice annunciator system in my plane. Tells me about all kinds of things. Traffic, gear up, engine params out of range, low fuel reserve to destination, etc   

 

-Robert 

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

Bitchin Betty has no doubt saved untold numbers of gear up incidence with the airlines.

I can honestly say that in over 20 years of flying airliners for 2 different Part 121 carriers, I have never had the automation tell me, "Too Low- Gear".  The technology doesn't save the airplane from a gear up, the second crew member does.  (And that's happened with me onboard only twice.)

The lesson for us, I think, is that without a second crew member, how do we prevent gear up accidents?  Best option if you fly with a significant other is to train them on sterile cockpit procedures and to ask "Gear down?" on base or final approach.  Other than that, checklists, strict adherence to procedures, multiple GUMP checks, and some sort of last-resort safety catch are all that we have.

And as to dropping the gear in the pattern or 5 miles out, it doesn't really matter as long as it works for the PIC.  I won't lower the gear 5 miles out because it goes against everything I've been taught professionally. But I won't fault someone who does as long as they do it the same way every time, i.e., strict adherence to their procedures. 

Just MHO, getting off the soapbox now to give someone else a chance.

[GeeBee]

It does make you wonder how PIA managed to pull it off.

 

[Austintatious]

Ill just add 3 things:

 

1. CHECK LIST

2. CHECK LIST

3 CHECKLIST

 

OK OK, on a more serious note... I always say outloud "GEAR DOWN BEFORE LANDING CHECKLIST"  I flow through what needs to get done, then read the checklist to make sure I didn't miss anything.  At 1 mile out I make a second gear down check.

I don't know about the OP's aircraft, but I would have a LOT of trouble slowing my Rocket down to approach speed without the gear.  heck, sometimes it is even hard to get down to VLO without the speedbrakes.

[RobertGary1]

Just now, Andy95W said:

I can honestly say that in over 20 years of flying airliners for 2 different Part 121 carriers, I have never had the automation tell me, "Too Low- Gear".  The technology doesn't save the airplane from a gear up, the second crew member does.  (And that's happened with me onboard only twice.)

 

There are likely 10’s of thousands of 737 rated pilots on the planet. Somewhere out there one of them is the worst. That guy flies day in and day out. If one day he crashes the plane it makes it look like boeing built a bad plane. So Boeing’s task is to ensure that guy does not bend up a 737.  The plane is literally designed for that guy. 
 

-Robert 

[Andy95W]

Robert, I understand what you're saying about technology and I agree with its validity, but you completely missed the point of my post.

[RobertGary1]

50 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Robert, I understand what you're saying about technology and I agree with its validity, but you completely missed the point of my post.

I understood your point but my point is that not all crews are as alert as you report. 
 

-Robert 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

There are likely 10’s of thousands of 737 rated pilots on the planet. Somewhere out there one of them is the worst. That guy flies day in and day out. If one day he crashes the plane it makes it look like boeing built a bad plane. So Boeing’s task is to ensure that guy does not bend up a 737.  The plane is literally designed for that guy. 

I'm an engineer in a manufacturing facility. I deal with product specifications, work instructions, procedures, repairs and maintenance every day. I constantly remind myself of this:

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

[jlunseth]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

Ain’t that the truth! But these aren’t fools in the traditional, Darwinian Awards sense. Gear ups result from forgetfulness and distraction, and perhaps from exceptional piloting, i.e. those who are so good that it can never happen to them so they don’t worry about it too much.

[Hank]

14 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

Ain’t that the truth! But these aren’t fools in the traditional, Darwinian Awards sense. Gear ups result from forgetfulness and distraction, and perhaps from exceptional piloting, i.e. those who are so good that it can never happen to them so they don’t worry about it too much.

We can all act foolishly from time to time. Sometimes it can bite . . . . And our foolish actions and distractions can override any habit, practice, procedure or checklist. It only takes once at the wrong time and place. We are all vulnerable. 

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, jlunseth said:

Ain’t that the truth! But these aren’t fools in the traditional, Darwinian Awards sense. Gear ups result from forgetfulness and distraction, and perhaps from exceptional piloting, i.e. those who are so good that it can never happen to them so they don’t worry about it too much.

I don’t consider myself a fool but I spent money on a gear warning system anyway. I know I’m capable of doing dumb things on occasion. 
 

-Robert 

[carusoam]

Some occasions occur...

When really tired... or exhausted... or hungry... or stressed... Or had some other life experience... or were ill... or used some meds... or had a great time with the grand kids... or have a big presentation for the client... or you are a bit more aged this week compared to last... or the pattern is full... or one speed brake is out... or that light is out... or the weather isn’t very good... or the wind just changed direction...

Or my helmet has a fire in it....

A stack of things that can cause distraction.... depending on the day, enough that gear up is the configuration.... when gear down is thought to be established...

Amazing how parts of memory work, and sometimes fail...

I don’t have that problem... one day becomes... I don’t have that problem very often.... 

It can be hard to recognize the changes...

PP thoughts about thoughts and memories.... not a cognitive expert...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Mooneymite]

15 hours ago, Austintatious said:

Ill just add 3 things:

1. CHECK LIST

2. CHECK LIST

3 CHECKLIST

That solution has been the standard for years for everyone, airlines to Mooneys. 

The results are the subject of this thread.   Miserable and consequently rising insurance rates. 

Why do we continue to pretend it is an adequate solution?

Clearly, this is Trump’s fault. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Mooneymite

[jlunseth]

Apropos to this thread, the following is from a July 15, 2020 updated article in Aviation Consumer, which looked at the records of gear ups. So why on earth would a pilot ever let themselves get into the pattern before putting the gear down? As for technological solutions, I have one, everyone should have one, but their value is expressed at the end of the first paragraph:

“I Just Forgot

If there’s a common theme in gear-up landings, you’d have to be as dense as a mud fence to miss it: cockpit distraction. Time after time, pilots who’ve done the slide tell the FAA or investigators that something distracted them from their normal routine and lowering the wheels just got overlooked. More than one pilot said the gear-up warning horn was blaring away but went unnoticed until the airplane ground to a halt.

The hit parade of distractions? You name it, it’s on the list: Tower changed the runway; looking for traffic; worrying about a crosswind; impromptu CTAF debates; a go around; confused by a checklist; an odd smell in the cockpit. If the overwhelming majority of retractable pilots didn’t land with the wheels properly locked, you could be forgiven for thinking pilots have the attention span of gnats.“

 

[Ibra]

A visual "gear dn" sticker near ASI and decal "gear dn" over the cowling/left wibdowb if you will only miss them if you are not looking at aircraft nose or airspeed when near runway threshold on base & final

Anything else (audio, text...) seems to fail under stress/distraction but the eyes don't lie and they get wide open on the runway and will catch it 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Ibra

[atrosa]

I'm not a mooney owner but plan to be one day. Here is what I envision doing one day if I get a J bar mooney.  A green sticker 1/2 the  length of the J-bar handle on the side that says OK TO LAND and on the console where the J-bar would cover a red sticker saying " DO NOT LAND" 

A $10 solution that can't hurt.

Patent Pending  my only caveat is if you make one you need to send me one too    Free idea to MooneySpace members.

 

  

[Hank]

Just now, atrosa said:

I'm not a mooney owner but plan to be one day. Here is what I envision doing one day if I get a J bar mooney.  A green sticker 1/2 the  length of the J-bar handle on the side that says OK TO LAND and on the console where the J-bar would cover a red sticker saying " DO NOT LAND" 

Those of us with electric gear have a backup mechanical indicator on the floor below the throttle--red for Gear Unsafe; green for Gear Safe; and mine has a barber pole when gear is in transit (too fast to see while flying, but very noticeable when my old pucks wouldn't let the gear up the last couple of inches in the winter). 

[Andy95W]

4 hours ago, atrosa said:

I'm not a mooney owner but plan to be one day. Here is what I envision doing one day if I get a J bar mooney.  A green sticker 1/2 the  length of the J-bar handle on the side that says OK TO LAND and on the console where the J-bar would cover a red sticker saying " DO NOT LAND" 

A $10 solution that can't hurt.

Patent Pending  my only caveat is if you make one you need to send me one too    Free idea to MooneySpace members.

 

  

The Mooney Mite had a windshield wiper that waved a flag right in front of the pilot's face if the gear was up and the throttle at idle.  People still landed them gear up.

[PT20J]

A common feature of full flight simulators nowadays is to be able to depict another aircraft or vehicle on the active runway.

Many years ago, I met the NASA researcher responsible for that. She was doing some research using airline pilots in a full motion simulator at Ames Research Center. (I believe she was studying something related to flying instrument approaches but I no longer recall the details). This was back in the 1970s before computer generated scene simulation so the simulator used a terrain board and "flew" a camera down to short final on a scale runway (it couldn't actually complete the landing) with the image depicted on a large projection screen outside the simulator windscreen. She had the cockpit rigged with cameras recording over the shoulder shots of the pilots, scene and instrument panel. One day near the end of the study and just for fun she placed a miniature model airplane in position and holding on the runway. Surprisingly, several pilots were so consumed by the task at hand that they completely ignored the obstructed runway. They didn't recall seeing the holding airplane until they were shown the over the shoulder video and they were pretty shook up about it.

So, if experienced pilots can get so focused on a particular task that they don't see an airplane on the runway, they can certainly tune out any lights, buzzers or placards.

A friend was sitting in the runup area years ago when he saw a Bonanza about to flare with the gear stowed. He picked up the mic and started yelling for the pilot to go around to no avail. When the plane slid to a stop, he ran over to see if the pilot was OK which he was though shaken. My friend asked if the pilot had heard him calling frantically on the radio and the pilot said he heard something but he couldn't make it out because there was a loud horn going off.

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