Looking for a up lock and down lock block for CNC owner produced

[hammdo]

So going 7075 should be good since it's recommended by the FAA still..

 

I'm ready! 

-Don 

[Sabremech]

5 minutes ago, hammdo said:

So going 7075 should be good since it's recommended by the FAA still..

 

I'm ready! 

-Don 

I don’t have the aluminum alloy charts in front of me to confirm the best suitable replacement, but 6061-T6 may be more than acceptable. Will work on the comparisons over the weekend for a recommendation for the group. It might be that 7075 is the best, but other alloys are acceptable to the FAA.

Thanks 

David

 

[Skates97]

10 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

Received the lab report and the cast aluminum alloy comes back as 5140. 
Thanks,

David

My recommendation would be to have payments sent in to someone and track it. Once you have money from at least 10 people to meet the run then have them made and sent out. (Should allow for a price for shipping. Not to disparage anyone that has posted that they want a set, but sometimes (myself included) we think we are going to buy something but then put it off. Better to have the money in hand before having them made instead of someone shelling out the money and then stuck selling inventory.

[Raptor05121]

Is there any cost difference between  5140, 6061 and 7075? I like the idea of going the strongest, but then again the 5140 lasted 55+ years on my bird so I don't care.

Cash is ready to flow! Who is spearheading this, where do we sent it? Gosh I love this forum

[jamesm]

Not being a metallurgist or having and not having a background  as one, I am wondering if hypothetically you went with tougher alloy / hardness combination .... could this  mean that say  as on example latching mechanism part that is in contact down lock block now would  wear more over time? potentially shifting the the problem from down lock block wear to the johnson  bar handle wear.

Just curious,

James '67C

 

 

 

[Open4cycle]

   I'm not competing with David for work. When I contacted David he told me that he had already submitted his sample for analysis and I could post something here offering my services. I have made unobtainable parts for both this Mooney I currently own and a 1947 Navion.  I just thought I could offer a good alternative with my abilities and the equipment I own.  Not trying to step on any toes. That being said I analyzed my Up-lock block today it showed to be 6061 alloy. The sideways picture shows the percentages of each element. 6061 is about half the price of the 7075 or 2024, however per part would be about $10.00 difference from my sources. Even though using a harder aluminum alloy would not wear the striker on the handle, per the FAA it should be made from the same material.

Hope this helps,

                             Scott Rickard

 

[Open4cycle]

23 hours ago, rbridges said:

You ever going to send me those teflon inserts that I paid for?  You told me last July that you were going to mail them.

What are you doing with those inserts? I have mailed you 2 sets 2 different times.  I only charged you for 12" material, which I think was $18, the labor and postage was free. I still have material if you want me to make more? 

[rbridges]

25 minutes ago, Open4cycle said:

What are you doing with those inserts? I have mailed you 2 sets 2 different times.  I only charged you for 12" material, which I think was $18, the labor and postage was free. I still have material if you want me to make more? 

Never saw either set. I had someone else make them. 

[Open4cycle]

38 minutes ago, rbridges said:

Never saw either set. I had someone else make them. 

I'm sorry you didn't receive them. I've never had a problem with the USPS before. I refunded you $20.00.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Open4cycle

[Sabremech]

Here’s the report from the lab I used. 
David

[Sabremech]

1 hour ago, Open4cycle said:

   I'm not competing with David for work. When I contacted David he told me that he had already submitted his sample for analysis and I could post something here offering my services. I have made unobtainable parts for both this Mooney I currently own and a 1947 Navion.  I just thought I could offer a good alternative with my abilities and the equipment I own.  Not trying to step on any toes. That being said I analyzed my Up-lock block today it showed to be 6061 alloy. The sideways picture shows the percentages of each element. 6061 is about half the price of the 7075 or 2024, however per part would be about $10.00 difference from my sources. Even though using a harder aluminum alloy would not wear the striker on the handle, per the FAA it should be made from the same material.

Hope this helps,

                             Scott Rickard

 

Hi Scott,

Is your down lock block you tested an original cast block or a machined block from LASAR? 
Just trying to understand the differences in the reports. 
Thanks,

David

[Open4cycle]

David,

It is indeed a cast block from 1968 M20F. Either the smelting pot wasn't held to a high standard for these ingots or the alloys changed from early to later production. Oh I tested the Up Lock Block because I don't need to Jack the plane up till next month.

Scott

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Open4cycle

[Sabremech]

11 minutes ago, Open4cycle said:

David,

It is indeed a cast block from 1968 M20F. Either the smelting pot wasn't held to a high standard for these ingots or the alloys changed from early to later production. Oh I tested the Up Lock Block because I don't need to Jack the plane up till next month.

Scott

 

Hi Scott, 

I guess no telling as the down lock tested was off of my 66C. Not too many years apart. 
Thanks,

David

[Hank]

4 hours ago, jamesm said:

Not being a metallurgist or having and not having a background  as one, I am wondering if hypothetically you went with tougher alloy / hardness combination .... could this  mean that say  as on example latching mechanism part that is in contact down lock block now would  wear more over time? potentially shifting the the problem from down lock block wear to the johnson  bar handle wear.

All aluminum alloys will be softer than your steel johnson bar. No need to worry about which part will wear . . . . .

[MB65E]

I bet Mooney used whatever aluminum stock they had on the shelf. I bet both test results are correct. 
It’s just neat to have the talent here to remake such parts!

-Matt

[RLCarter]

28 minutes ago, MB65E said:

I bet Mooney used whatever aluminum stock they had on the shelf. I bet both test results are correct. 
It’s just neat to have the talent here to remake such parts!

-Matt

I'm guessing Mooney ordered castings or the finished part... 

[hammdo]

My take would be 7075 for the added wear resistance however, most of us won’t need to worry about the next time it needs replacing. It will probable hold up well...

-Don

[carusoam]

PP thoughts...

Possible explanation of what we are seeing...

The original part was a cast piece... most likely using the lost mold technology found in a Jr. High School  metal shop class.

and it was PROBABLY made up of scraps thrown in the melt pot... a nice way to turn scraps into useable parts.

 

As for wear between the J-bar or the aluminum blocks... the surface hardness defines which part will wear.  The steel J-bar may even have a harder coating of chrome on it...

 

Looking forwards...  the aluminum oxide coating is what anodizing is... a nice way to put a hard coating on the part...

 

Is there any lubrication applied to this part at any time?

My 65C appeared to have this part painted, probably gray.. the paint was stripped in a straight line where the J-bar contacted it and slid into place...

 

PP thoughts only, not a plane builder...

Best regards,

-a-

[EricJ]

13 hours ago, carusoam said:

PP thoughts...

Possible explanation of what we are seeing...

The original part was a cast piece... most likely using the lost mold technology found in a Jr. High School  metal shop class.

and it was PROBABLY made up of scraps thrown in the melt pot... a nice way to turn scraps into useable parts.

That's a pretty good point.   I don't think I'd stress too much about the specifics of the alloy other than it is within a reasonable range of the original, which was probably a mutt.

 

13 hours ago, carusoam said:

As for wear between the J-bar or the aluminum blocks... the surface hardness defines which part will wear.  The steel J-bar may even have a harder coating of chrome on it...

Yes, probably not a big issue here, either.

A couple weeks ago at school in our engine overhaul class my lab partner and I split the case of the Lycoming O-290 we're tearing down.  We used a case splitter that bolts to the cylinder mount pad and has a big jack screw with a v-shaped metal push-block end that pushes against the rod journal on the crankshaft.    I was worried we were going to mar the crank journal and the instructor pointed out that the journal is a nitrided steel surface and the push block on the jack screw is aluminum.   It didn't leave any marks on the journal.

[carusoam]

When it comes to avoiding scratching things...

Brass tools are often used as scrapers, pokers, and something to put between your part and the hammer...

Often dead blow hammers are made of lead, another very soft, but heavy metal...

Best regards,

-a-

[Sabremech]

For the group, short of the final determination on the alloy to use, what’s the consensus on how to handle the order? I’ll place the order with my shop once I have a solid order (quantity) to place as I’m not wanting to hold onto any additional units for any long length of time.

 Here’s my thoughts: those wanting to order please e-mail me your name and address along with which parts you wish to order. I’ll confirm with AndersJ that anyone who orders is on the list of people who contributed to the drawing fund in order to maintain the owner produced rules as the drawings are owned by those who contributed. I’ll the place the order and once it’s complete, contact those on the order list with their cost including shipping charge. E-mail sabremech@gmail.com
 

If by chance there’s someone who wants to place an order that didn’t contribute to the drawing, we’ll need to figure out from the group how to handle that.

Thoughts?
Thanks, David

Edited February 23, 2020 by Sabremech

[hammdo]

Emailed!

-Don

[Raptor05121]

I did not contribute, yet. Would it be easier to send a donation now, or can add price onto my order?

E-mail sent

[J0nathan225]

Email sent and I have contributed. 

1x down lock block.

[Hector]

Email sent. I contributed and want a down lock block


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