Looking for a up lock and down lock block for CNC owner produced

[RLCarter]

1 hour ago, Jim Peace said:

It went in during annual at a MSC,,,can only hope that it was done correctly...The bar moves just fine, it is just almost impossible to move in and out of the block....would that be an issue with it being rigged?

Just to be clear the “down block” is the one under the panel which is Gear Down, if this is the one replaced then yes it needs rigging AFTER it’s replaced 

[RLCarter]

Just now, N201MKTurbo said:

I’m sorry, I thought we were talking about the up block.

Yes, there a few things that will make that difficult. I just re-rigged one on Monday that was replaced. It was mis-rigged before the replacement. It is smooth as silk now.

Al should have put another bell crank so up is up and down is down......lol

[N201MKTurbo]

Is it hard to push it forward the last inch or so? Or is it hard to slide it up into the latch?

[Jim Peace]

3 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Is it hard to push it forward the last inch or so? Or is it hard to slide it up into the latch?

Hard to slide it up into the latch. Hard to slide it down out of the latch. 

[Culver LFA]

3 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

Hard to slide it up into the latch. Hard to slide it down out of the latch. 

It’s possible that there is more effort due to the reduced handle/block clearance friction (where the old block was worn the new block is not), a shot of triflow on the top of the handle may help but this should really be corrected with proper adjustment.

Sounds like the gear preload is set a little high, and while all should be checked this issue could be caused by only one of the four rods being adjusted too long. The final adjustments takes a fine touch, 1/2 turn of a rod end makes quite a difference in preload and down latching effort. If pushing the bar forward while engaging the down block helps, some minor adjustments may be needed.  

[N201MKTurbo]

6 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

Hard to slide it up into the latch. Hard to slide it down out of the latch. 

The nose gear rigging can make it hard to push the bar forward  as @Culver LFA said. But if it isn’t having a hard time pushing it forward and just having a hard time sliding it up, I would spend my time working with the new down block. 

There are no adjustments on the block. It’s position is pinned. What I would do is take it off and make sure the latch pin slides freely and polish out, de-burr it’s holes as necessary until it does slide freely. I would then take the new block with the latch pin in place see how it engages with the Johnson bar before installing it on the panel. This is to make sure it engages easily without any alignment or preload forces on it. 

Then mount it back on the panel and look at it from below as you slide it up into the socket. See if it is going straight up into it, or if it is biased to one side or another. If it is just rubbing too hard on the back side of the hole, then I would take another look at the nose gear retract rods. 

[Sabremech]

7 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

Hard to slide it up into the latch. Hard to slide it down out of the latch. 

You might want to check the down lock blocks hole diameter in relation to the diameter of the j-bar handle. The owner produced blocks were anodized and if LASAR had theirs powder coated with the hole at a tight tolerance, that might explain the struggle to get it in and out of the block. 

[Jim Peace]

Its a two hand operation.....totally sucks

[Piotrekpdx]

Jim, I just picked up my plane from it’s annual and the new owner produced block works perfectly. Sorry to hear that you’re having problems with yours. 

[RLCarter]

9 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

Its a two hand operation.....totally sucks

Mine was the same when I purchased the plane, went through the rigging process and made a huge difference. I replaced the “down block”(under the panel) and the chrome handle 2 years later and it was right back to being nearly impossible to slide the handle into or out of the block. Rigging is checked at annual per an AD, the reason is as the block wears it reduces the over-center pressure at the gear which if worn enough will allow the gear to collapse. If the pressure is too high several things can happen 1) the issue you are having 2) it puts a lot of stress on the J-bar and it can break the weld and then your really screwed 3) will prematurely wear the new block. It needs to be put on jacks and checked, something isn’t right and my money is on the rigging

[Jim Peace]

1 hour ago, RLCarter said:

Mine was the same when I purchased the plane, went through the rigging process and made a huge difference. I replaced the “down block”(under the panel) and the chrome handle 2 years later and it was right back to being nearly impossible to slide the handle into or out of the block. Rigging is checked at annual per an AD, the reason is as the block wears it reduces the over-center pressure at the gear which if worn enough will allow the gear to collapse. If the pressure is too high several things can happen 1) the issue you are having 2) it puts a lot of stress on the J-bar and it can break the weld and then your really screwed 3) will prematurely wear the new block. It needs to be put on jacks and checked, something isn’t right and my money is on the rigging

got this email from LASAR this morning....the plane will be put on jacks and checked....just wish I could be there....my damn schedule is not giving me enough home time.

""""Good morning Jim. A couple of things we have experienced here and heard of happening. One, the gear is not rigged correctly and making it tough to lock the bar in to the socket. Second, and more common that thought of. The box for the nose gear has had carpet added around it. Down close to the floorboard it is already tight (in stock config) the clearance between the Johnson bar and the back of that box. Adding carpet in that area binds the Johnson bar and even a big guy struggles to get the bar locked in to the socket. We have sold close to 300 of these sockets and haven't had one that was an issue that was the fault of the product. Usually one of the two causes I've mentioned. The down lock blocks (sockets) are made to a specific drawing in a CNC machine and can not get in the field without conforming to the original drawing."""""

[RLCarter]

Sounds like your headed in the right direction, so much safer when it works as designed. Be sure to update us on what found/done

[Skates97]

3 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

got this email from LASAR this morning....the plane will be put on jacks and checked....just wish I could be there....my damn schedule is not giving me enough home time.

""""Good morning Jim. A couple of things we have experienced here and heard of happening. One, the gear is not rigged correctly and making it tough to lock the bar in to the socket. Second, and more common that thought of. The box for the nose gear has had carpet added around it. Down close to the floorboard it is already tight (in stock config) the clearance between the Johnson bar and the back of that box. Adding carpet in that area binds the Johnson bar and even a big guy struggles to get the bar locked in to the socket. We have sold close to 300 of these sockets and haven't had one that was an issue that was the fault of the product. Usually one of the two causes I've mentioned. The down lock blocks (sockets) are made to a specific drawing in a CNC machine and can not get in the field without conforming to the original drawing."""""

I replaced mine with the owner produced ones. It changed the pre-loads and put them out the top end of the allowed limits so we adjust those. It still took two hands to lock it into place while swinging the gear on jacks, I couldn't imagine trying to do that in the air. Somewhere along the line someone had added carpet to the box for the nose gear. It looks nice, but that extra little bit that the bar had to go forward now without the egg shape of the original block made it extremely difficult. I took a razor blade and cut the strip of carpet behind where the bar is and removed that piece of carpet. It is smooth and easy now to lock the bar in the down-lock block. It isn't pretty right now when the gear is up with that strip of carpet missing, but it is very functional. I will probably either paint that section gray to match the carpet or put in a piece of gray cloth (very thin) to match the carpet.

[Jim Peace]

18 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

I replaced mine with the owner produced ones. It changed the pre-loads and put them out the top end of the allowed limits so we adjust those. It still took two hands to lock it into place while swinging the gear on jacks, I couldn't imagine trying to do that in the air. Somewhere along the line someone had added carpet to the box for the nose gear. It looks nice, but that extra little bit that the bar had to go forward now without the egg shape of the original block made it extremely difficult. I took a razor blade and cut the strip of carpet behind where the bar is and removed that piece of carpet. It is smooth and easy now to lock the bar in the down-lock block. It isn't pretty right now when the gear is up with that strip of carpet missing, but it is very functional. I will probably either paint that section gray to match the carpet or put in a piece of gray cloth (very thin) to match the carpet.

makes sense,,,,sending this to my mechanic

[RLCarter]

48 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

I will probably either paint that section gray to match the carpet or put in a piece of gray cloth (very thin) to match the carpet.

I installed the plastics on my nose wheel housing and had to cut behind the J-bar for the same reason. I put a strip of red duct tape on the housing for a visual aid   When the gear is retracted 

[Skates97]

37 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

I installed the plastics on my nose wheel housing and had to cut behind the J-bar for the same reason. I put a strip of red duct tape on the housing for a visual aid   When the gear is retracted 

Ah, I hadn't considered that, but I really like the idea. I've got a roll of bright yellow tape at the hangar, I'm going to put that there and see what it looks like.

[carusoam]

When my C got carpet... there was a lot of trimming to go with that... both up and down...

The wheel well was covered in carpet...

Best regards,

-a-

[Piotrekpdx]

Here are two pictures of the down lock block which I replaced this annual. There is a lip half way down the hole which kept catching the gear lock mechanism. It’s so nice to have it replaced and knowing that the gear will go into locked position every time without having to jiggle it into place. 
 

Thanks again to everyone who participated in this effort!

[hammdo]

Looked just like mine! Was worth the effort to get it done...

-Don

[Rjfanjet]

Up lock block was just replaced with the new owner produced part. Works great!

Thanks for everybody’s help.

[rbridges]

Great to hear the replacement are working fine.  Mine will probably sit on the shelf for years, but it's nice knowing it's there when the time comes.  

[Jim Peace]

4 hours ago, Rjfanjet said:

Up lock block was just replaced with the new owner produced part. Works great!

Thanks for everybody’s help.

 

Do you have carpet around your nose wheel well?

[Jim Peace]

I just took this video...I think I am going to have to get rid of the carpet...what do you think?

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, Jim Peace said:

I just took this video...I think I am going to have to get rid of the carpet...what do you think?

IMG_3010.mov

I think so. When I replaced mine it was just like what you show in your video, tight as it can be against the carpet and it took two hands and a lot of effort to latch it. Removed the strip of carpet right behind the bar and it latches easily now. Next time I have it up on jacks I'm going to put a strip of the bright yellow duct tape I have where the carpet strip was removed. You won't really be able to see it with the gear down and locked, but just an extra visual reminder when the gear is up.

[Jim Peace]

1 hour ago, Skates97 said:

I think so. When I replaced mine it was just like what you show in your video, tight as it can be against the carpet and it took two hands and a lot of effort to latch it. Removed the strip of carpet right behind the bar and it latches easily now. Next time I have it up on jacks I'm going to put a strip of the bright yellow duct tape I have where the carpet strip was removed. You won't really be able to see it with the gear down and locked, but just an extra visual reminder when the gear is up.

Thank you thank you thank you......to bad my mechanics here at the creek could not figure that out.....at 115 dollars an hour what do you expect.....I am going to have a A&P  friend of mine jack the plane up and we are going to fix it ourselves as well as an oil leak that they say I do not have,,,,even though the nose wheel well and the nose gear and gear doors and hoses have oil on them........it was dry prior to the annual they did

 

I have relearned a lesson in aviation.  Paying more does not get you more quality work.....just gives you grief...and lowers your checking account without increasing safety......