Garmin G5 rumors

[aviatoreb]

18 minutes ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

Oh boy. Thanks @PTK   

Here’s the text I just got from the shop owner.  This will get interesting.  

Tom

Mooneyspace mind trust avionics install auditing department to the rescue!

Now - almost time to go charge up your phone.

Edited January 10, 2020 by aviatoreb

[PTK]

25 minutes ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

Oh boy. Thanks @PTK   

Here’s the text I just got from the shop owner.  This will get interesting.  

13 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

At this point in the game I’d really think long and hard about using a shop that didn’t realize the 256 AI is still needed for attitude reference. UNLESS he knows about a new adapter box coming out for the G5 or g3x. A huge chunk of the fleet is using that type of system. 

This wouldn’t concern me! It’s easy to get confused. Especially when dealing with numerous systems and manufacturers as avionics shops do. 

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, ZuluZulu said:

Not even Bob Hoover pulled aileron rolls like that!

Neil Armstrong "enjoyed" a day like that one Gemini 8 ride that went wrong and almost tragically wrong.

https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraft/display.action?id=1966-020A

I read roll rate increased to 296 rev/sec.  It was rolling so fast that the danger was they would pass out, and if that had happened, it would have been a disaster outcome. Good ol' Neil figured it out and saved the day.

[MIm20c]

13 minutes ago, PTK said:

This wouldn’t concern me! It’s easy to get confused. Especially when dealing with numerous systems and manufacturers as avionics shops do. 

You’re right. He probably has multiple aircraft on the mind right now and is working long hours trying to get everyone in ASAP. He also might have thought YRM was keeping the AI just for attitude reference. That would be my strategy right now, keep the old AI and install it on the copilot side. 

[RobertGary1]

14 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

You’re right. He probably has multiple aircraft on the mind right now and is working long hours trying to get everyone in ASAP. He also might have thought YRM was keeping the AI just for attitude reference. That would be my strategy right now, keep the old AI and install it on the copilot side. 

No doubt. Whenever I go into my avionics shop they look like they've been running marathons. They've been eyeballs deep in ADS-B inspired new panels for the last 5 years. The waiting list is 9 months.

-Robert

[bradp]

I wouldn’t be too critical of the avionics shop.  Think 10-15 years ago there were releases of new technology every couple of years.  Now it’s difficult to keep up with all the changes in how the electrons fly around on a weekly basis. 
 

or wait until next week - you may be able to replace your Ki256 with a g5 ... 

[Yooper Rocketman]

1 hour ago, PTK said:

This wouldn’t concern me! It’s easy to get confused. Especially when dealing with numerous systems and manufacturers as avionics shops do. 

I could NEVER disclose the price he was giving our mercy flight organization as he deep discounted the labor, had a huge discount on the Garmin product he was passing on to us for the ability to demo the install AND due to support he obtained from Garmin.  In addition, his 3 man shop, 5 years ago, now has 30+ employees.  He is expanding so fast he can't keep up with everything like he would like.  This is a A+ business owner.

We'll figure it out.  The amount of support he has done for our organization far exceeds any negative from this situation.

Thanks again Peter for the help on this!!

Tom

 

[RobertGary1]

6 minutes ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

I could NEVER disclose the price he was giving our mercy flight organization as he deep discounted the labor, had a huge discount on the Garmin product he was passing on to us for the ability to demo the install ...

Tom

 

My shop sells all the hardware at wholesale and marks up the labor. Saves the 10% California tax as much as posible.

-Robert

[Austintatious]

Someone tell Garmin that if they make the G5 capable of working as primary attitude and FD with legacy Autopilots,  as of yesturday, They can put me down for 2 units!

[G-SLOT]

12 minutes ago, Austintatious said:

Someone tell Garmin that if they make the G5 capable of working as primary attitude and FD with legacy Autopilots,  as of yesturday, They can put me down for 2 units!

And me for one more (I already have one) and probably a GFC500 when the King a/p eventually gives up.

[MIm20c]

I’m curious what owners are willing to pay for this converter box.  Garmin and aspen both have D/A boxes for the lateral navigation in the $700-$1k range. They also currently have boxes that output attitude info in the $3k range (only G500 and txi for Garmin). 
 

Are owners looking for a $1k, $2k, or a $3k converter box to work with the G5?

[Steve W]

58 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

I’m curious what owners are willing to pay for this converter box.  Garmin and aspen both have D/A boxes for the lateral navigation in the $700-$1k range. They also currently have boxes that output attitude info in the $3k range (only G500 and txi for Garmin). 
 

Are owners looking for a $1k, $2k, or a $3k converter box to work with the G5?

The KI 300+ KA 310 is $4688 from one website.

The G5 is $2249. So, $2k is reasonable, $2500 just so I don't have to buy any more King gear  and can rip out my entire vacuum system.

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Steve W

[PTK]

1 hour ago, Austintatious said:

Someone tell Garmin that if they make the G5 capable of working as primary attitude and FD with legacy Autopilots,  as of yesturday, They can put me down for 2 units!

Did they announce something? Is there an announcement coming? I haven't read anything to that effect.

[Steve W]

Just now, PTK said:

Did they announce something? Is there an announcement coming? I haven't read anything to that effect.

Nah, just the continuing persistent rumor. Since they just announced new stuff last week I'd expect the next set of rumors before Sun 'n Fun. and then we can all be disappointed still.

[pwnel]

1 hour ago, MIm20c said:

I’m curious what owners are willing to pay for this converter box.  Garmin and aspen both have D/A boxes for the lateral navigation in the $700-$1k range. They also currently have boxes that output attitude info in the $3k range (only G500 and txi for Garmin). 
 

Are owners looking for a $1k, $2k, or a $3k converter box to work with the G5?

Well roughly a dual G5 and a single Aspen 1000 Max is about the same installed.  The Aspen EA100 is $3k extra.  If Garmin did this for $1k it would tip in their direction.  For either company I would strategically make this box a loss-leader to win customers over.  The cheaper the better.  It think it would tip it for many folks.

[RobertGary1]

22 minutes ago, Steve W said:

Nah, just the continuing persistent rumor. Since they just announced new stuff last week I'd expect the next set of rumors before Sun 'n Fun. and then we can all be disappointed still.

Sales rep says to expect Wednesday. 
 

-Robert 

[Steve W]

12 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Sales rep says to expect Wednesday. 
 

-Robert 

Much like King's announcements of the KI-300... 'By The End of the Year', yes, but which year.

[Davidv]

2 hours ago, MIm20c said:

I’m curious what owners are willing to pay for this converter box.  Garmin and aspen both have D/A boxes for the lateral navigation in the $700-$1k range. They also currently have boxes that output attitude info in the $3k range (only G500 and txi for Garmin). 
 

Are owners looking for a $1k, $2k, or a $3k converter box to work with the G5?

I know nothing is "easy" when it comes to tech but if the GAD43e can take info from the 500txi and convert into an analogue signal how much tougher could it really be for the G5?  As I've said previously, these king autopilots are all going to go eventually and if you already have a G5 and all of the other Garmin toys it's only inevitable that you'll be buying the GFC500.

[Austintatious]

1 hour ago, Davidv said:

I know nothing is "easy" when it comes to tech but if the GAD43e can take info from the 500txi and convert into an analogue signal how much tougher could it really be for the G5?  As I've said previously, these king autopilots are all going to go eventually and if you already have a G5 and all of the other Garmin toys it's only inevitable that you'll be buying the GFC500.

This !

.  If Garmin never makes the g5 work with legacy autopilots, when my AP goes, I will likely seek any and all non Garmin solutions...  Likely the Dynon.  That is looking like it will be available this year, and not only do you get an autopilot be a really nice EFIS display.

That being said, If I was rocking 2 g5's and my AP went bad, the GFC 5/600 would probably be a savings over the dynon and I would go with that.

They really have been foolish by not doing this from the get go... You can bet that EVER SINGLE aspen installation you see was a missed sale of 2 G5's + the non existent converter box. 

[Davidv]

7 minutes ago, Austintatious said:

This !

.  If Garmin never makes the g5 work with legacy autopilots, when my AP goes, I will likely seek any and all non Garmin solutions...  Likely the Dynon.  That is looking like it will be available this year, and not only do you get an autopilot be a really nice EFIS display.

That being said, If I was rocking 2 g5's and my AP went bad, the GFC 5/600 would probably be a savings over the dynon and I would go with that.

They really have been foolish by not doing this from the get go... You can bet that EVER SINGLE aspen installation you see was a missed sale of 2 G5's.

Exactly, I got quoted an extra $6k to install an EA100 including parts.  So with labor I'm spending around $20K to put in an aspen and EA100 and I still have an autopilot from 30 years ago in the plane.   With the other options at the moment, no thanks.

[RobertGary1]

The issue, as explained to me was that the G5 was developed for the experimental market so integration, etc is difficult.  However, I think Garmin may have been surprised at the response to the certified version of the G5. I believe part of the announcement is a made-for-certified product that is designed for these types of things.

 

-Robert

[OR75]

The G5 filled a very nice niche between "overhauled vacuum based instruments" and the Aspen

Nothing against the Aspen but too much $$$ for I am looking for (personal preference).  Install and  ACU costs  are big hurdles

[aviatoreb]

44 minutes ago, Austintatious said:

This !

.  If Garmin never makes the g5 work with legacy autopilots, when my AP goes, I will likely seek any and all non Garmin solutions...  Likely the Dynon.  That is looking like it will be available this year, and not only do you get an autopilot be a really nice EFIS display.

That being said, If I was rocking 2 g5's and my AP went bad, the GFC 5/600 would probably be a savings over the dynon and I would go with that.

They really have been foolish by not doing this from the get go... You can bet that EVER SINGLE aspen installation you see was a missed sale of 2 G5's + the non existent converter box. 

Well said.  My position exactly.

[jetdriven]

I think part of the problem here is that the G5 (and g3x touch, GFC500, etc) was developed with CANBUS technology which really isn’t backwards compatible with analog auto pilots. CANBUS send messages along a common bus line to other boxes in the network which decode the message and that does the action. It allows you to do all of these functions with a three wire pair. This has been the standard for automobiles for a few years now, but there’s not really a solution to break it out into analog left or right outputs  with no feedback. 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

I think part of the problem here is that the G5 (and g3x touch, GFC500, etc) was developed with CANBUS technology which really isn’t backwards compatible with analog auto pilots. CANBUS send messages along a common bus line to other boxes in the network which decode the message and that does the action. It allows you to do all of these functions with a three wire pair. This has been the standard for automobiles for a few years now, but there’s not really a solution to break it out into analog left or right outputs  with no feedback. 

The can bus has nothing to do with it. They output analog guidance signals for the AP DG using the GAD29B. They could easily make a box that would output the analog signals to drive the legacy APs. It is not a technical issue. It is a business and/or regulatory issue.