more on prebuy

[Jerry Pressley]

Got a lot of flaq lately on my quirks on selling Mooney.  Some think I should upload all the logs and send those to prospective buyers. Others think it is normal practice to fly to him for his inspection and prebuy. Nonrefundable deposits are totally taboo.  So let me once again lay out the method that works for many years for me. Exceptions as always of course. 

Include in the original ad the necessary times etc.  2. answer questions but with my opinions of the plane. Is it a 6 or 7?  My 8 may be your 2 so is difficult. 3. If it sounds like a good deal to buyer have him come look before going further. 4. If he decides it is his dependent on a prebuy then take a 10% (not $10,000 as claimed by another tire kicker) deposit dependent on the prebuy. Lots of good shops around but I prefer D. Maxwell. I will fly it for prebuy at buyers expense. If it passes or if descriptiveness can be taken care of immediately then the deposit is non refundable. Otherwise the 10% is returned. Most planes I have sold I have delivered. Since the time spent in the air does not count on ones lifetime, at my age  I need all the air time i can get.  As far as gear ups etc, just ask. Those of us that have been around for a longer time know correctly repaired damage means the plane has been into and thoroughly inspected which means other potential problems have been addressed. so first look and decide if you like it, then inspect, inspect, inspect

[Marauder]

Jerry - times are changing. With the advent of the internet, came the ability to instantaneously share information. Today, providing an electronic copy of the logs in my opinion is a basic requirement of selling a plane. It gives a potential buyer the opportunity to look them over with a mechanic of their choosing to determine any concerns. If you don’t have anything concerning in the logs, why not share them? Is it too much work to copy them?

As for the 10% down practice. Why not just use an escrow service with a clear definition of the handling of the down payment?

The internet rightly or wrongly has changed how people interact. Not be demeaning, but you have had several very public altercations on the internet with people you have interacted with. It’s not helping your ability to sell your remaining planes or the 50 years worth of inventory you mentioned (yes Jerry, the internet sees all).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[MIm20c]

No logs, at least 5 years plus DH and overhaul pages, is an absolute show stopper for me. How long does it take to take a few pics of the pages and send them by text?

Edited October 11, 2019 by MIm20c

[ZuluZulu]

If you wanted to have this debate, why did you delete the other thread? It’s a lot easier to complain about criticism after you’ve deleted it, huh. 

[steingar]

Were I to sell my aircraft (I ain't) I would supply as many photos as the buyers wanted.  Whatever they wanted.  They can have the last few years of logbooks, no more.  Sorry, I've logs going back 50 years.  I will happily tell them everything I know about the damage history.  Yes, I will deliver it to inspection for expenses.  I've never seen the need for a deposit and have never been abused, but there's a first time for everything.

Actually, I take it back.  is it even legal for a private pilot to deliver an aircraft for inspection and recover expenses?  We aren't supposed to be remunerated for our flying.

[Jerry Pressley]

On 10/11/2019 at 10:59 AM, MIm20c said:

No logs, at least 5 years plus DH and overhaul pages, is an absolute show stopper for me. How long does it take to take a few pics of the pages and send them by text?

PICS ARE IN THE AD

[Jerry Pressley]

On 10/11/2019 at 1:51 PM, ZuluZulu said:

If you wanted to have this debate, why did you delete the other thread? It’s a lot easier to complain about criticism after you’ve deleted it, huh. 

Not a debate. Just what I have learned from selling.  When a potential buyer is disgruntled because he didn't get enough freebies he distorts the conversations we have and ......you see the results. If it seems like a good deal to you then look at it rather than let someone else decide if you want it.  then inspect thoroughly by prebuy etc. 

 

[urbanti]

Sir I am sure you are a nice guy, and your planes are in great shape.

That being said, you are cutting yourself off from a significant portion of the modern 2019 market if you are unable to share basic documents like logbooks electronically. 

Good luck

Tim

 

[bdserv]

Time is valuable for buyers and sellers alike.  I want to see a minimum of 2 yrs of engine/airframe/prop log entries plus a current W&B before I even consider spending time and money to see the airplane in person.  If there is a damage history or STCs then I want to see those entries too.

This is not difficult if you are a serious seller.  Take pix of the information and upload them to one of the many file sharing sites like Google Drive, etc., and then direct potential buyers to those sites via shareable links.  This works well for detailed pix too, and that way you don't have to email large files to everyone who inquires.

Consider two identical airplanes - one with minimal available information and an uncooperative seller and the other with all of the above plus recent borescope pictures and oil analysis data from the past several years provided by an accommodating seller.  Which do you think will sell first?

[ZuluZulu]

6 hours ago, acpartswhse said:

Not a debate. Just what I have learned from selling.  When a potential buyer is disgruntled because he didn't get enough freebies he distorts the conversations we have and ......you see the results. If it seems like a good deal to you then look at it rather than let someone else decide if you want it.  then inspect thoroughly by prebuy etc. 

 

Okay, so you don’t like freebies in the buying process. What do you call the nonrefundable deposit?

[Guest]

Maybe I’m missing something, but where does keeping the deposit come from?  

From Jerry’s post.....

“If it passes or if descriptiveness (discrepancy’s) can be taken care of immediately then the deposit is non refundable. Otherwise the 10% is returned.”

Sounds straight forward to me, if it passes the inspection the deal is moving forward and closing.  Who else would get the deposit but the seller?

Clarence

[steingar]

One of my pals was selling his airplane.  Got a buyer lined up, arranged the inspection, everything.  At the last minute the buyer to cold feet.  You better believe my buddy kept the guy's deposit.

[ZuluZulu]

18 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Maybe I’m missing something, but where does keeping the deposit come from?  

From Jerry’s post.....

“If it passes or if descriptiveness (discrepancy’s) can be taken care of immediately then the deposit is non refundable. Otherwise the 10% is returned.”

Sounds straight forward to me, if it passes the inspection the deal is moving forward and closing.  Who else would get the deposit but the seller?

Clarence

If that's true, then that's fine.  We used to have the other side of the story to consider, but it was deleted.

[ExpressJetter]

On 10/13/2019 at 4:25 PM, ZuluZulu said:

Okay, so you don’t like freebies in the buying process. What do you call the nonrefundable deposit?

Jerry told me on the first call it was a non-refundable 10% deposit.  Nothing about refunding anything.  What he is describing to you above is "if the plane exists I keep your $.  If it doesnt exist, you can get it back"  (of course that is a little dumbed down)

 

As an experienced seller, and "mechanic" he should know that by hiding information he is essentially committing fraud which (at least in my state) is 3 times damages.  So there really should not be any "descriptive discrepancies"...... but their are

 

The guy is shady.

[MIm20c]

I feel like I’m missing most of the story behind this thread which I’m assuming is the one that was deleted. 
 

Off topic but I think if and when I ever need to sell a plane I’m going to require a $1k deposit. If you actually show up to look at the plane within a reasonable time frame (2 days if close, up to a week if far away) you can have a full refund for any reason. If for some reason it’s not worth your time to see it after committing to the plane the deposit goes to me. Keeps the tire kickers from across the country from slowing down the selling process. If the buyer wants to continue with a formal prebuy after first look (with their/local mechanic) that cost is on them but again the deposit will be fully refundable. 
 

The above will probably blow up in my face, live and learn I guess.