Looking for a M20J

[chriman17]

Does anybody have a J or know of someone with a J that's willing to part with it?

Preference is 83 or newer and must be frequently flown and in good working condition. An updated panel would be a plus. 

[TCC]

Jimmy’s got a couple.

http://m.allamericanaircraft.com/List/Aircraft/ForSale

[chriman17]

1 hour ago, TCC said:

Jimmy’s got a couple.

http://m.allamericanaircraft.com/List/Aircraft/ForSale

I've been trying to make a deal with him on one.

I'd really like to modernize the avionics, but it appears difficult to do without having more money invested than what the aircraft is actually worth. I'd rather pay more for one with the work already completed, but finding one is like looking for a unicorn. I was hoping maybe someone had that unicorn and was willing to part with it.

[TCC]

...
I'd really like to modernize the avionics, but it appears difficult to do without having more money invested than what the aircraft is actually worth. ...

Unfortunately, that’s what the market is bearing these days.

[carusoam]

5 hours ago, chriman17 said:

.....without having more money invested than what the aircraft is actually worth....

Let’s focus on this sentence for a minute....

At one time this was possible...

People got confused when the panel cost more than the plane...

You could sell the panel, and it came with an attached plane...

The disappointing part is even modern panels age poorly... 20year old digital boxes aren’t as well liked as new GTNs...

 

Lets look briefly at a great retirement plane...

An M20E...

The Pilot flys IFR and has 50amu of electronics installed in his panel...

I expect he will be flying it for two decades or more... especially if his grandson starts flying...

 

Why does he have 50amu wrapped up in his panel... because he likes the situational awareness it provides...

Somebody else will have to sell it when he is done...

 

There was a time when nobody would put a GPS in a short body Mooney... because the plane didn’t cost enough...

These economic statements make no sense. But, people made them anyways...

 

You are not installing the devices for the plane to use... you are installing them, for you to use...

Get what meets your mission... pay the lowest price for the total package...

Know whatever you have gets old and surpassed over the decades...

Good with that? You are approved to go forwards...

Buyers are more knowledgeable now than ever... it will be the same when you are a seller... you may have to explain to the buyers what a GTN is... to get your asking price...

PP thoughts on funky things I remember hearing while buying my first Mooney... 

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

My strategy was to buy my forever plane, then I don’t need to worry about my ROI.
There is no way you are going to buy a plane, boat, etc...upgrade it and not be the red.
The used small GA plane market has crept up in the last 5 years, I expect with so few new ones being built that will continue.


Tom

[chriman17]

4 hours ago, carusoam said:

The disappointing part is even modern panels age poorly... 20year old digital boxes aren’t as well liked as new GTNs..

I completely agree with you, tech moves incredibly fast and you're paying a very large premium for tech that will be outdated tomorrow. It's leaving these planes in the stone age. If you were buying a car and it had a 430 equivalent in it, you would probably laugh, but it appears to be the norm in aviation. The market is also hot ATM and it's driving initial acquisition cost up making it even more difficult to accomplish. 

[Chris K]

14 hours ago, chriman17 said:

I completely agree with you, tech moves incredibly fast and you're paying a very large premium for tech that will be outdated tomorrow. It's leaving these planes in the stone age. If you were buying a car and it had a 430 equivalent in it, you would probably laugh, but it appears to be the norm in aviation. The market is also hot ATM and it's driving initial acquisition cost up making it even more difficult to accomplish. 

If you are focusing primarily on the panel when buying a plane, you are focusing on the wrong thing.  If this is your first plane, then do yourself a huge favor and focus on the airframe and engine because you can't even fly VFR if those are not well taken care of.  Once you have that in a plane, the panel is "easier" to play with and not quite as critical.  It's incredible the amount of situational awareness a GTX 345 with GPS paired to a couple iPads will give you.  If you don't want to spring for the all in one transponder update, there are multiple lower dollar options to be both ADS-B compliant and give you situational awareness.  I learned to fly without GPS and only used VOR for navigation.  I was initially disappointed to buy my first plane with a "lowly" M1 Loran but in time learned to love it and flew coast to coast with it though I did long for a moving map.  Fast forward to today and though I hate twisting the dials of my G530/430, I feel zero need to "upgrade" to a GTN or G1000 type setup because any tablet computer with the right subscriptions gives me all the situational awareness I need (and then some).  With too many gizmos inside you'll start to forget that the best views are outside.  Long story short, don't get too wrapped up in a plane with a "wow" panel or paint job and focus on making sure the plane itself will not cost you big bucks in repair items.  The money you'll save over time on surprise repairs will be money you can use to upgrade avionics.

[gsxrpilot]

46 minutes ago, Chris K said:

If you are focusing primarily on the panel when buying a plane, you are focusing on the wrong thing.  If this is your first plane, then do yourself a huge favor and focus on the airframe and engine because you can't even fly VFR if those are not well taken care of.  Once you have that in a plane, the panel is "easier" to play with and not quite as critical.  It's incredible the amount of situational awareness a GTX 345 with GPS paired to a couple iPads will give you.  If you don't want to spring for the all in one transponder update, there are multiple lower dollar options to be both ADS-B compliant and give you situational awareness.  I learned to fly without GPS and only used VOR for navigation.  I was initially disappointed to buy my first plane with a "lowly" M1 Loran but in time learned to love it and flew coast to coast with it though I did long for a moving map.  Fast forward to today and though I hate twisting the dials of my G530/430, I feel zero need to "upgrade" to a GTN or G1000 type setup because any tablet computer with the right subscriptions gives me all the situational awareness I need (and then some).  With too many gizmos inside you'll start to forget that the best views are outside.  Long story short, don't get too wrapped up in a plane with a "wow" panel or paint job and focus on making sure the plane itself will not cost you big bucks in repair items.  The money you'll save over time on surprise repairs will be money you can use to upgrade avionics.

It's not an either/or thing. Obviously finding a plane that has been well taken care of, is sound mechanically, is corrosion and damage free, etc. is a given. But why not get that same plane with a good panel. Upgrading the panel later will cost 3 to 4 times what it would have cost to buy the plane that already has the right panel in it. And flying with a nice panel with modern automation and information is arguably safer and certainly less work/more enjoyable, over long cross countries. Which is what the Mooney excels at.

[chriman17]

2 hours ago, Chris K said:

If you are focusing primarily on the panel when buying a plane, you are focusing on the wrong thing.  If this is your first plane, then do yourself a huge favor and focus on the airframe and engine because you can't even fly VFR if those are not well taken care of.  Once you have that in a plane, the panel is "easier" to play with and not quite as critical.  It's incredible the amount of situational awareness a GTX 345 with GPS paired to a couple iPads will give you.  If you don't want to spring for the all in one transponder update, there are multiple lower dollar options to be both ADS-B compliant and give you situational awareness.  I learned to fly without GPS and only used VOR for navigation.  I was initially disappointed to buy my first plane with a "lowly" M1 Loran but in time learned to love it and flew coast to coast with it though I did long for a moving map.  Fast forward to today and though I hate twisting the dials of my G530/430, I feel zero need to "upgrade" to a GTN or G1000 type setup because any tablet computer with the right subscriptions gives me all the situational awareness I need (and then some).  With too many gizmos inside you'll start to forget that the best views are outside.  Long story short, don't get too wrapped up in a plane with a "wow" panel or paint job and focus on making sure the plane itself will not cost you big bucks in repair items.  The money you'll save over time on surprise repairs will be money you can use to upgrade avionics.

A well maintained quality aircraft is obviously my number 1 concern which was stated in my original question, but finding one already upgraded could save you a tremendous amount of money and hey, who doesn't want to save a few bucks. My mission is to frequently travel longer xcross countries so good modern automation is important to me. 

[MIm20c]

Please give us a budget to work with. 

[ArtVandelay]

It's not an either/or thing. Obviously finding a plane that has been well taken care of, is sound mechanically, is corrosion and damage free, etc. is a given. But why not get that same plane with a good panel. Upgrading the panel later will cost 3 to 4 times what it would have cost to buy the plane that already has the right panel in it.

But you’re not going to find a well care for plane with modern avionics for cheap. There isn’t a J on the market that has truly modern avionics (GTN, ADSB in/out, G5s or full glass, etc).


Tom

[chriman17]

2 hours ago, MIm20c said:

Please give us a budget to work with. 

I'd like to try and stay under a 150k. 

[KB4]

Priority for me was #1Engine #2 Airframe, #3 Panel. Took me nearly 2 years to find right J.  New Mooney will break most banks and very little quality used inventory out there, thus the reason for prices increasing.  You will pay more the longer you wait but do wait until you find the J that is right for you.  As MS’ers have said get the best you can within your budget.  

Also in NY there is no sales tax to GA buyers so you could save a good 10k to put into a G3X by buying in NY.