chriman17

I’ve gained a lot of knowledge since I first made this post, I wouldn’t buy that thing with your money lol

I think you missed the analogy of syncing more money into something than it's actually worth. Especially if you don't love and plan to keep it for the next 10 years. I don't know if I'll like and keep it for 2 years let alone 10 years. I think the others are correct in saying buy something you don't need to put much upfront money in. After a couple years if you still truly like it, have fun with it. I just lost nearly 200k a couple months ago on a house we built in my hometown. The house was absolutely amazing, if I could have moved the house to a different state, I would have done it all day long. I've always disliked our area, but it's home and the wife likes it. I decided w/e this is it, I'll build our dream house and hopefully get over my dislike for the area. I never built it with the intention of selling it, so I spared no expense causing it to be over built for the area. 2 years after obtaining our CO I still hated the area and I finally convinced her to want to relocate out of NYS. It cost us approximately 200k. If I had waited 10/15 years, I probably wouldn't have taken that hit, but lessons learned and I wish not to repeat in other ventures.

I think I'm going to continue looking for something closer to being turnkey. I don't want to be the one to take the initial hit until I know for sure it's the right aircraft that I'll be keeping for the next 10yrs.

I wasn't looking at this as an investment nor has the thought ever crossed my mind to try and sell it for a profit, I was looking at this from the perspective where you buy a 1992 Saturn and decide to put new rims and paint on it rather than buying a different platform. If the plane is only ever going to be worth 120k, I don't want to sink an additional 50k in it, I'll just buy a different platform and minimize the risk. A better summary of my question is more along the lines of, a) I have never owned an aircraft b) I don't know what my true mission is c) I don't want to lose 50k if I decide to sell within a year or two.

For what it's worth, I have a track record of never keeping anything longer than a couple of years. Easily bored and looking for something new. I'm hoping to get this right the first time and break that bad habit. It has cost me a lot of money over the years with sports cars and houses.

Price is always a factor and I never said price wasn't a condition. I'm looking for the best all around value where I get a good airframe that will meet most of my needs with the best panel I can have. Most of what I have seen on the market has been pretty old which includes aircraft through the 90s. I would like to modernize a panel and would much rather do it to an airframe that will retain most of it's value. I would not want to put 40/50k into a C, but would consider doing it to a J. New aircraft haven't been depreciated and I don't want to be the one absorbing the depreciation.

I have zero interest in buying new.

Well said, thanks.

Well aware and never considered it one. I'm the original founder of cardaddy.com and moved millions of vehicles through my site prior to my acquisition a few years ago, so I'm very aware of buying anything with an engine. There's an old saying in the car bizz, if you want a fast car, don't try and make a slow car fast, just buy a fast car. I feel the same principals exist in aviation except the supply is very limited. I'd much rather buy something completed, but finding it...

Thank you, that's all I was looking for and yes, "IF" the economy stays strong is correct. I believe the economy is approaching the top based on what I'm seeing in the housing market again, so I'm trying to be a little cautious.

I think you're missing the entire point of my post. I'm aware it's a luxury and I'm prepared to spend the money, but like any sensible person, they'd like to buy right and not throw money down the toilet. If I fully understood my mission and knew for sure the plane would meet my needs over the next 10yrs, then I would be much less concerned with being upside down. Right now I'd like to know the top of the market so I can value the purchase with upgrades.

I haven't ruled out E's or F's, I just like some of the features of a post 83 J. Single piece belly, removable / fold down rear seats, etc. Unless the market tanks or you buy wrong, I don't see where there's going to be a major difference in cost of ownership between the two beyond maybe the electric gear. Yes, that 20% is with my friends and my closest friend is slightly curvy who some how managed to achieve 285. I feel like he's put a spear into my shopping. Distance with the wife would never be more than 500nm in a single leg. That trip could see three of us with some luggage. We are moving to NC and will need to travel back and forth to Albany NY, so that will be the primary mission. 10/15% with the friends would be less than 1.5hrs.

It just recently happened with an F33A, it was the first one I ever laid eyes on and the only thing I new about the brand was what I read the night before. The price was perfect, the aircraft near was perfect, but my lack of knowledge made it not so perfect. It wasn't until after I lost the deal and a little bit more education did I realize I screwed up. Unfortunately like cars, these things aren't so readily available. I just remember as a kid buying my two seater sports cars and having to stuff friends in the trunk or having to ride them in the center. 80% of the time the car was perfect, but the other 20% made the car a deal breaker. I eventually switched to a 4 door and never looked back.

I would agree 100% with you, but the 205 was completely original and would have needed a lot of panel work. I think if you were to do panel work with a J, that would have been a perfect platform to do it with. I think at minimum it would have needed ADS-B, GPS/NAV/WAAS.

Nah, I don't get emotional. If it sold I'll just move on and continue looking until I find one.

The 205 sold?

The wife and I don't yet have kids, however we are still at an age where we like to spend a lot of time doing things with our friends and would like to occasionally bring them along in the plane. Beyond that or maybe the comfort of sitting up higher in the beech, the J would mostly likely serve our needs perfectly. My biggest concern is buying the J, spending the money to put the panel in and then not be able to bring our friends along. I'd hate to take a big loss to make a switch.

No offense taken, the reason for the question is to better understanding J market so I don't over invest. If I find it doesn't meet the mission, I don't want to get killed making the switch. I'm sure once you've owned one for a while you'll know your mission much better. Until then you're shooting darts in the dark.

I think the real issue is not truly knowing my mission and without knowing that I really don't know what to buy. I've always liked Mooney's, but recently discovered the f33a and felt that was a nice balance between the Mooney and an A36. Finding a decent aircraft at the right price in this market has proven challenging

Yes I'm aware he has written the book on Mooney values and I'm aware market prices for used aircraft are on the rise, but I'm equally aware we are currently in a bull economy that could change in a moment's notice. I really like the aircraft due to its condition, but given this is my first one I really don't know what I want (M20J, F33A, A36). I worry if I were to put 40/50k into the panel before realizing it didn't meet my needs after a couple of years, I'd end up getting clobbered. If you were to ask me today I'd say I need to carry 4 adults with luggage 500nms and an A36 would be the ticket, but I may realize it's really only ever my wife with an occasional 3rd person and the J fits the ticket perfectly. If I knew my mission, I would be less concerned with being upside down.

I keep looking at Jimmy Garrison's 205J and continue to get stuck on the fact it's a 100% stock J with a base asking price of 119k. I'm concerned with the fact if I upgrade the panel along with a few other things I'll end up being extremely upside down in it where I find myself in A36 territory. My question is how much would the market bear for a really nice J like Jimmy's 205 with an updated panel? Also if you guys were doing the upgrade, what would you guys do?

Does anybody know of a good Mooney shop in the Indiana / Ohio area that could do a pre-buy inspection for me?

I'd like to try and stay under a 150k.

A well maintained quality aircraft is obviously my number 1 concern which was stated in my original question, but finding one already upgraded could save you a tremendous amount of money and hey, who doesn't want to save a few bucks. My mission is to frequently travel longer xcross countries so good modern automation is important to me.

I completely agree with you, tech moves incredibly fast and you're paying a very large premium for tech that will be outdated tomorrow. It's leaving these planes in the stone age. If you were buying a car and it had a 430 equivalent in it, you would probably laugh, but it appears to be the norm in aviation. The market is also hot ATM and it's driving initial acquisition cost up making it even more difficult to accomplish.