gsxrpilot Posted July 23, 2020 Report Posted July 23, 2020 Just now, DartMan said: Haha. Maybe the E type with its short field numbers would fit the bill then. In all seriousness, the E is one of the best models ever made, IMHO. It's got the same engine as the F and J but isn't dragging around an extra 10 inches of fuselage. Manual gear is bullet proof. Find one with all the 201 speed mods, or add them yourself, and you'll likely be faster than a J. The E is the original Mooney hotrod. 1 Quote
Hank Posted July 23, 2020 Report Posted July 23, 2020 2 hours ago, DartMan said: I know these short body Mooneys are small in the back but will a 6-10 year old typically fit back there without having to sit at a strange angle? Are they smaller than a piper pacer / tri-pacer in the rear seat area? thx I've carried 3 guys before. I'm 5'11", 200. Weight limited me to 34 gals (of 52). All were happy to go up the coast to Kitty Hawk with only minor complaints about limited visibility from the back seats. We were all happy to stand up and walk around! Quote
carusoam Posted July 23, 2020 Report Posted July 23, 2020 My kids made it to 10+ years old in the back of a C... The only time it is tight back there is when trying to use a pair of modern baby seats.... You can always ask the kids their preference... college, or a Long Body... This is where Bob would kindly offer up a picture of four adults flying in his M20E... Best regards, -a- Quote
mike20papa Posted July 23, 2020 Report Posted July 23, 2020 The back seat in my A model is one of the most comfortable rides I've ever experienced. 6 Ft and 185lbs. Go sit in one and find out. 3 Quote
Hank Posted July 23, 2020 Report Posted July 23, 2020 1 hour ago, carusoam said: My kids made it to 10+ years old in the back of a C... The only time it is tight back there is when trying to use a pair of modern baby seats.... You can always ask the kids their preference... college, or a Long Body... This is where Bob would kindly offer up a picture of four adults flying in his M20E... Best regards, -a- Sorry, I only fly a C, and the photo only shows the two (smaller) backseat passengers . . . . . It's surprisingly tough getting all 4 people in a selfie! 2 Quote
carusoam Posted July 24, 2020 Report Posted July 24, 2020 Deborah’s husband buys the coolest jewelry! -a- 1 Quote
Shiny moose Posted July 24, 2020 Report Posted July 24, 2020 Look at the book numbers, comparing a mooney like my 67F and an 1967 C182. I think you will find the take off data very close, and both are quite capable. 67 Mooney does not provide grass data. DA is the key. 90 degree day at a 2000ft elevation 2500ft grass strip with trees not much room for error. Most interesting is the 182 IAS/ CAS error with flaps down for take off. Low weight take off book climb is 52 IAS (below white arc VSO) CAS 63 plus. Know your aircraft!! Quote
DartMan Posted July 24, 2020 Author Report Posted July 24, 2020 34 minutes ago, Shiny moose said: Look at the book numbers, comparing a mooney like my 67F and an 1967 C182. I think you will find the take off data very close, and both are quite capable. 67 Mooney does not provide grass data. DA is the key. 90 degree day at a 2000ft elevation 2500ft grass strip with trees not much room for error. Most interesting is the 182 IAS/ CAS error with flaps down for take off. Low weight take off book climb is 52 IAS (below white arc VSO) CAS 63 plus. Know your aircraft!! Any chance you have a t/o, landing chart for the E model? thx Quote
Ross Taylor Posted July 24, 2020 Report Posted July 24, 2020 12 minutes ago, DartMan said: Any chance you have a t/o, landing chart for the E model? Here's a take off chart for a '66 E. This is not a factory chart and was taken from a very detailed spreadsheet an MSer posted...but I can't remember who, so my apologies for not giving them the credit they deserve. I printed and laminated this for our E. 2 Quote
carusoam Posted July 24, 2020 Report Posted July 24, 2020 Find a copy of the most recent POH for the M20E... It has a ton of valuable info that can be used on early M20Es... Best regards, -a- Quote
DartMan Posted July 25, 2020 Author Report Posted July 25, 2020 Random thought...I assume that the simple Johnson bar is the preferred gear method as opposed to a modified Duke electric setup. Less to fail and quicker to retract for short field work?? Quote
gsxrpilot Posted July 25, 2020 Report Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, DartMan said: Random thought...I assume that the simple Johnson bar is the preferred gear method as opposed to a modified Duke electric setup. Less to fail and quicker to retract for short field work?? I believe the general consensus is that the Johnson bar is preferred. I know it is for me. It takes some practice and the first several times, it seems complicated and ungainly. But once you've got it down, it's easy to use, minimal maintenance, and pretty much fool proof. 1 Quote
Ross Taylor Posted July 25, 2020 Report Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, DartMan said: Random thought...I assume that the simple Johnson bar is the preferred gear method as opposed to a modified Duke electric setup. Less to fail and quicker to retract for short field work?? As @gsxrpilot said...lots of owners love the Johnson bar...and I would be very happy to have it on our '66 E as well. But ours was changed to electric (two weeks off the factory floor) and I'm very happy with it, too. Our electric gear cycles faster than other retractables I've flown...and the only modification we might make is the addition of a speed override button. I think the only negative about the Johnson bar system is the actual physical range of motion required, which can be an issue for pilots with shoulder or elbow limitations. 1 Quote
Hank Posted July 25, 2020 Report Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, DartMan said: Random thought...I assume that the simple Johnson bar is the preferred gear method as opposed to a modified Duke electric setup. Less to fail and quicker to retract for short field work?? I enjoy my (fast) electric gear, and get to store things like drinks and lunch between the seats. Used to keep sectionals and Flight Guide there with Approach Plates sideways under the quadrant . . . . It's surprisingly useful storage since there's no J-bar taking up the room. Why "modified electric gear"? Mine came from the factory that way, after the manual gear was discontinued due to lack of buyers' interest. And I think my gear motor is ITT(old memory from annual). 1 Quote
carusoam Posted July 25, 2020 Report Posted July 25, 2020 Just think of all the things the J-bar can do that the electric switch can’t... 1) Need something crushed, put it under the J-bar... 2) Need your seatbelt removed during the landing process... a gear switch can’t do that... 3) Need to lose some skin off your hand... that’s a J-bar secret... 4) need an asymmetrical strength exercise... that’s all J-bar... 5) Need a reason to go to the gym... keeping shoulders healthy, so I can operate my J-bar... 6) want to launch something though the cabin... put it on the J-bar, then release the bar above VLG... 7) Can’t do a thumb nail test on an electric switch... 8) I loved my all manual Mooney M20C... 9) It would have been even better with manual speed brakes... 10) The M20C is a great intro to speed and efficiency, at a more affordable cost... 11) Wonder if Auto-lean would fit in a manual Mooney.... kinda like having touchscreen color GPS... PP thoughts only... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
ArtVandelay Posted July 25, 2020 Report Posted July 25, 2020 I’d hate to not be able to fly if I had a bad shoulder/arm/hand....you can keep the manual gear. Quote
Mooneymite Posted July 25, 2020 Report Posted July 25, 2020 I know the manual gear is beloved as a part of Mooney culture, but if it was so wonderful, why was it replaced by the electric gear? Completely. My electric (Dukes) gear has been trouble free for 22 years and as my bursitis gets worse, I am thankful for this modern convenience. 1 Quote
Hank Posted July 25, 2020 Report Posted July 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mooneymite said: I know the manual gear is beloved as a part of Mooney culture, but if it was so wonderful, why was it replaced by the electric gear? Completely. My electric (Dukes) gear has been trouble free for 22 years and as my bursitis gets worse, I am thankful for this modern convenience. I agree completely. My electric gear has given me no problems during my 13 years of ownership. Wish I could say the same thing about either shoulder . . . . My right one has been better since surgery 6 years pre-Mooney, but it still ain't "right". Very happy I don't depend on it for every landing. Quote
gsxrpilot Posted July 25, 2020 Report Posted July 25, 2020 C'mon guys... proper technique with a Johnson bar only requires fingertip control to guide the bar into location and seat it. If you're having to put your shoulder into it, you're doing it wrong. Again, don't blame the Mooney. 1 1 Quote
Mooneymite Posted July 25, 2020 Report Posted July 25, 2020 39 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said: C'mon guys... proper technique with a Johnson bar only requires fingertip control to guide the bar into location and seat it. If you're having to put your shoulder into it, you're doing it wrong. Again, don't blame the Mooney. I don't think either of us implied the aging process was Mooney's fault. If we're fortunate, we all get older. An electric gear is a nice foil. 1 Quote
Hank Posted July 25, 2020 Report Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mooneymite said: I don't think either of us implied the aging process was Mooney's fault. If we're fortunate, we all get older. An electric gear is a nice foil. Sadly, my shoulder problems hit at age 37 . . . . Too much abuse of the joint for too long. Edited July 25, 2020 by Hank Quote
gsxrpilot Posted July 25, 2020 Report Posted July 25, 2020 I have a completely wrecked right rotator cuff and couldn't throw a baseball from the mound to home plate if I tried. But swinging the manual gear in a Mooney is easy. Quote
bonal Posted July 26, 2020 Report Posted July 26, 2020 4 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: C'mon guys... proper technique with a Johnson bar only requires fingertip control to guide the bar into location and seat it. If you're having to put your shoulder into it, you're doing it wrong. Again, don't blame the Mooney. Quite correct, when done at the proper speeds and pitch the gear does all the work with a small amount of pressure needed to get it into the locks. I love the simplicity of it. I know the electric is very reliable but looking at the actuators there is a lot going on there. 1 Quote
Mooneymite Posted July 26, 2020 Report Posted July 26, 2020 Just now, bonal said: ....but looking at the actuators there is a lot going on there. One of the unmentioned problems with the electric gear is that there is no after-take-off-wing-wobble which clearly, unmistakable marks a proficient Mooney pilot retracting the gear. Might as well be flying a Bo. 1 1 Quote
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